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Author Topic: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread  (Read 11521 times)

Danger-Weiner

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #50 on: November 21, 2013, 11:36:54 PM »
0
Christians believe their religious lineage goes back to the first humans and all prehistory and early history was focused on one point. No matter how old the earth is, that is when Christianity started. Jesus showed up 2,000 years ago and atheists want to say that is when Christianity started because if the religion is new then it is silly to believe in it. But atheists misunderstand us completely.

As for the age of the earth, in 2013 it looks like 4 billion years have passed but that is about a third of the life of the universe, which has been going through a lot of growing pains. Everything is expanding. We all accept relativity when it comes to speed, which is another way to describe distance, but we haven't broached the idea of temporal relativity. If you are stretching matter and generally fucking with the fabric of the universe, you are necessarily fucking with time and stretching it. A day is still a day, but relative to what? I don't know why physicists don't talk about this. It seems obvious to me. So what is a day to the universe? What is a billion years or eternity?

When time is relative, who knows what time it is or how long it took to get here?

what if we're all just a dream that god is having and when he wakes up that's the end of the world?
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Rocket

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #51 on: November 21, 2013, 11:43:31 PM »
+2
What if you're a faggot?
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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #52 on: November 21, 2013, 11:52:16 PM »
+2
what if I punched you in the face you fucking dweeb

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2013, 02:22:22 AM »
0
What it comes down to is that many of the elements of the Jesus myth pre-existed his time and were commonly known throughout that part of the ancient world. Walking on water, virgin birth, rising from the dead, etc. It's all pretty blatantly influenced by Greek/Egyptian/Zoroastrian/Roman mythology.
Proof? Also, Even if true, does not negate the belief that the story of Christ is true.

It does to reasonable people. Someone that holds onto a concept because there is that .01% chance that it's true while the majority of the evidence is to the contrary aren't reasonable. So no, it will never be fully negated because you can't ever disprove something like the Jesus myth. My apologies that Roman's weren't doing peer reviewed studies on their subject province's cult's validity (not that this would even be accepted if they had).

If something cannot be negated then it is not unreasonable to believe in it. You're the one being unreasonable by postulating the falsity of a claim without proof of its negation.

Prove that there aren't omnipotent invisible elephants observing and judging us, or that reincarnation doesn't happen.  You can't, and this is where the main difference between religious and non-religious people comes from.  Religious people believe whatever it is they believe for a variety of personal reasons which I won't insult anybody by pretending to understand, but you base your beliefs on faith.  Non-religious people come from the point of view of "If there is no evidence to prove the existence of any of the deities from any of the religions, why should I pick any one of them to believe in at all?"  Holy books in and of themselves aren't sufficient evidence because, again, there are countless religions each with their own holy book or oral tradition, and each religion has a vested interest in saying their holy texts are true, so why should I believe on over the other?

Physicists do talk about relativity with regards to time.  Our current understanding of it is that from our reference point (Earth), a day is a day is a day.  It's when you get away from our point of reference or go and a significantly faster speed than what we're going at when time starts to get wonky relative to Earth.  So this means that 4 billion years on Earth was 4 billion years worth of 24 hour days as we know them since how long something took only matters from YOUR point of reference.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 02:24:27 AM by The Patriarch »
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Tariq Aziz

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2013, 03:10:24 AM »
+1
I don't really believe in God, but I do try to stay on friendly terms with him/her/xhe

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2013, 04:05:39 AM »
+3

Ghostse

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #56 on: November 22, 2013, 07:22:08 AM »
+1
I believe that Christ existed, and was both Human and Divine even if Peter probably exaggerated some stuff. But I'm less sure of that than I am that there is a logic and order to the universe that is more than just random chance.

I believe the Bible is true, but may not be completely accurate.

For example, if I say Skink Shaming loves tranny cock (both preop soft E boners and FtM flacid armdongs), this a true and accurate statement. Skink Shaming has a well documented insatiable love for cocks all over his face.

But if I say that Rrail is dumb as a box of rocks, while this a true statement as Rrail is a retarded faggot*, his IQ is slightly higher than that of a box of cooled lava chunks, meaning it is not an accurate statement.

But anyone who isn't a retarded sperglord trying desperately to refute that statement in any way they can because they never stopped being angry at their dad, they can apply a little reasoning to that statement and accept it as true without needing it to be accurate.

Of course the problem also exists in the other direction when someone feels the need to scoop out Rrail's brain with a melonballer and fill his skull with marble chips, because they feel all true statements must also be accurate.


*also a nigger.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 01:19:47 PM by Ghostse »
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Rocket

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #57 on: November 22, 2013, 09:05:31 AM »
+1
I believe that Christ existed, and was both Human and Divine even if Peter probably exaggerated some stuff. But I'm less sure of that than I am that there is a logic and order to the universe that is more than just random chance.

I believe the Bible is true, but may not be completely accurate.

For example, if I say Skink Shaming loves tranny cock (both preop soft E boners and FtM flacid armdongs), this a true and accurate statement. Skink Shaming has a well documented insatiable love for cocks all over his face.

But I say that Rrail is dumb as a box of rocks, while this a true statement as Rrail is a retarded faggot*, his IQ is slightly higher than that of a box of cooled lava chunks, meaning it is not an accurate statement.

But anyone who isn't a retarded sperglord trying desperately to refute that statement in any way they can because they never stopped being angry at their dad, they can apply a little reasoning to that statement and accept it as true without needing it to be accurate.

Of course the problem also exists in the other direction when someone feels the need to scoop out Rrail's brain with a melonballer and fill his skull with marble chips, because they feel all true statements must also be accurate.


*also a nigger.
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Ghostse

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #58 on: November 22, 2013, 02:49:18 PM »
0
Working very hard to make my dumb as a box of rocks statement accurate as well as true.

People tend to lose their religion but not their faith. Once you start realizing that God probably doesn't actually magically turn bread into human flesh inside your mouth and that it's a metaphor, you also start realizing you can sleep in on Sunday.

It also ignores:
1) Most people are retarded.
2) Dumb people don't question things.
3) Athetists were a very small and quiet minority until the 60's.

Which stands to reason most dumb people believe what they were taught growing up and never question it.  You'll see this trend reverse I think as the retarded SJW spawn of internet atheists grow up, where only the smart ones will question whether god is dead. Or you would see it reverse except in the future IQ tests will be regarded as oppressive and triggering, so everyone will automatically be given a 200 IQ if they are a minority, 150 if you are a cis white male.

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Rocket

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2013, 02:52:38 PM »
+1
idk what ghoatse's on about because my brain hurts right now but it's a statistical fact that religion and IQ (and religion and education) are inversely related - that is, as a population becomes smarter or more knowledgeable, they lose their religion

i think in the "are you dumb for being religious" argument thats a pretty important point
Hey Rrail, if I ask you to prove these statistics are you going to "lol" it away or do you have something to back up your bullshit? I'm not stupid. And I know a lot of smart people who are religious.

When Paul sent a letter to the Romans he spoke about this. "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools..." So call yourself smart or call me a fool, but you keep talking about shit you have no way to prove and call me stupid for believing something you say I can't prove.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 04:36:25 PM by Rocket »
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Ghostse

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2013, 02:54:28 PM »
+2
Uhm, the more educated and more intelligent you are the more likely you are to regard yourself as areligious/agnostic/atheist. I don't get how you think that's just someone "losing their faith".

Glad to see you bucking the trend.
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Ghostse

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2013, 03:09:14 PM »
+1
Read your own articles, maybe?

Quote from: Psychology Today, the only one on that list that isn't a complete Atheist Smugbox or mass consumption news
In short, discussing correlations between IQ and religiosity without a grasp of the relevant underlying factors is something of a parlor game. It recalls the long and tiresome debate about the correlation between IQ scores and skin color that got a lot of people very excited but proved a scientific dead end.
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rape priviledge

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #62 on: November 22, 2013, 03:14:00 PM »
+3
Rrail you've done a shit job of defending atheism/critiquing religion. If I were an atheist, I'd be embarrased

Danger-Weiner

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #63 on: November 22, 2013, 03:15:46 PM »
+4
i'm atheist and i am embarassed
Trigger warning: the second video contains powerful audio of the manís fragmented urine stream.

Ghostse

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #64 on: November 22, 2013, 03:37:51 PM »
0
Rrail, have you considered a career as a Florida District Attorney? Because I think you'd fit right in.
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The Trumpriarch

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #65 on: November 22, 2013, 03:40:34 PM »
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cry "bigot!" and let slip the troons of war

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2013, 04:33:33 PM »
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Seriously, I'm pretty damn goony and I still can't imagine how fucking goony you have to be to think that pointing out "people who believe X are generally dumber" is ever going to make anyone reconsider their belief in X.

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #67 on: November 22, 2013, 07:15:14 PM »
+1
in rrail's defense, it's kind of the only valid response to "judaism is the oldest religion"


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Danger-Weiner

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #68 on: November 22, 2013, 07:26:46 PM »
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in rrail's defense, it's kind of the only valid response to "judaism is the oldest religion"

hinduism is older lol
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skink shamed

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #69 on: November 22, 2013, 07:50:12 PM »
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"There can be no conclusive proof of the existence/nonexistence of omnipotent gods", where is your conclusive proof for this statement or is its validity a question of faith?  :smug:
Only things which began to exist have a cause. The universe began to exist. It's only endless because you refuse to accept that a creator of all contingent things cannot itself be created.
An infinite regress of causes has no explanatory power for why there is something rather than nothing.

By definition (omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent and all that) God is incomprehensible to human reason. Whatever proof one concocts, God could always just hide from it. There is also no need for said proof. Either He exists or does not exist, life goes on either way.

Here you come to the problem of assuming that the Universe began. We do not know for certain, but there are several options for that:

1) Before the big bang there was no thing. This is not the same as nothing. Any question of existence, even time, is utterly irrelevant before the big bang in this case, and if you say the Universe began from nothing you are arguing from the limits of human comprehension. In this case there is no need for a creator, simply some rules of attraction and repulsion, you know, physics.

2) The Universe has always existed. It is possible that the Universe is doing a cyclical big bang/big crush thing, or a cyclical expansion where new big bangs occasionally take place in some other conditions. When the branes of superstring theory almost bang against each other for example. Still no need for a creator.

Even if I'm dumb as fuck, none of you proven atheism to be more true than theism. Keep on gooning though.

And here it is, my original point. Neither can really be proven, if God exists he most certainly would not have a need to step down from the heavens to assert his existence in a conclusive way. If He doesn't exist that can't really be proven either. A question of faith

The discussion is dumb and so am I for participating in it.

There's no contradiction in the incomprehensible nature of a being and proof of its existence. I see no need to abandon the causal principle to support speculative models of the universe.

My point has been to ask is there proof of the theist explanation of the universe as being false? And if no such proof has been found how then are Christians unreasonable?


skink shamed

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #70 on: November 22, 2013, 07:52:26 PM »
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Prove that there aren't omnipotent invisible elephants observing and judging us, or that reincarnation doesn't happen.  You can't, and this is where the main difference between religious and non-religious people comes from.  Religious people believe whatever it is they believe for a variety of personal reasons which I won't insult anybody by pretending to understand, but you base your beliefs on faith.  Non-religious people come from the point of view of "If there is no evidence to prove the existence of any of the deities from any of the religions, why should I pick any one of them to believe in at all?"  Holy books in and of themselves aren't sufficient evidence because, again, there are countless religions each with their own holy book or oral tradition, and each religion has a vested interest in saying their holy texts are true, so why should I believe on over the other?

Physicists do talk about relativity with regards to time.  Our current understanding of it is that from our reference point (Earth), a day is a day is a day.  It's when you get away from our point of reference or go and a significantly faster speed than what we're going at when time starts to get wonky relative to Earth.  So this means that 4 billion years on Earth was 4 billion years worth of 24 hour days as we know them since how long something took only matters from YOUR point of reference.

I base my faith in God on evidence.

Btw, atheism is a religion.  :smug:


skink shamed

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #71 on: November 22, 2013, 07:54:10 PM »
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idk what ghoatse's on about because my brain hurts right now but it's a statistical fact that religion and IQ (and religion and education) are inversely related - that is, as a population becomes smarter or more knowledgeable, they lose their religion

i think in the "are you dumb for being religious" argument thats a pretty important point
lol Doesn't prove theism to be false. Try again.


That's just like all of Skinks argument - "you can't PROVE that the farming god in the random Ubabauntu tribes pagan pantheon isn't the Christian god!".
Actually I argue that you can't prove Christianity is derived from pre-existing mythology. Try again.


Thanks guys but I did a pretty good job of demolishing Skink while drunk as fuck so I'm going to chalk that up as a win.
Can you show me the post where you proved theism is false?

you can't lol Try again.


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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #72 on: November 22, 2013, 09:07:15 PM »
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Just wanted to throw in my two cents here:

I was raised a non denominational Christian (been to a variety of churches, never really subscribed to any one flavor), and while I was moderately religious as a kid, I'm now what I like to call "laid-back"

I subscribe to the common sense stuff in the Bible (the rules about not being a dick to people for the hell of it, more or less), and I'm fairly convinced the Bible is historically true, albeit heavily embellished in many parts, not to mention has a somewhat imperfect translation in modern day. As a result, I don't think too hard about the shit I'd need a theology degree to really ruminate on, and while I do believe there is a God, I refuse to be a bible beating jackass about my beliefs.

In fact, I keep my religious practices and beliefs fairly private and try not to ram my beliefs (which are somewhat lapsed anyway) down anyone's throat, and I don't mention them unless someone specifically asks.

That's my personal views.

As for my social/political/historical opinions on religion, I think religion can be and has been a source of good values and a great contributor to art, literature, and music, and has helped many people in times of trouble by giving them something to hold onto. That's the good part.

However, religion has been and still is a source of bad shit like religious zealots (of all faiths) being dicks to other people, to the point of being willing to kill people for not sucking the cock of the invisible man they pray to. It has also left some corners of the world in a highly regressed state socially and politically, and while I don't hate those who would wish to live in a theocracy of any particular religion, I personally feel a theocratic government is the most backward form of government in terms of assuring the equal treatment of people of all races and genders, and I would never wish a theocratic government on anyone.

Ok, I said what I wanted to say, feel free to comment or call me a stupid faggot.

Now, back to the atheists and theists hate fucking each other.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 09:08:13 PM by Anthtax »
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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #73 on: November 22, 2013, 09:58:00 PM »
+1
if i might say, secular governments have killed more people than religious theocracies ever have

now do we attribute genocidal behavior to non-religion? if not, do we attribute genocidal behavior to religion?


i note that in cases where nominally secular governments have gone to great efforts to wipe out a religious population they do it mostly because religious people have a divided loyalty between their god and their nation. which is very similar to the reason why religious theocracies do the same thing
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 10:00:48 PM by wimpb »

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Re: All-purpose religious argument clusterfuck thread
« Reply #74 on: November 22, 2013, 10:15:12 PM »
0
I think there needs to be a distinction between secular governments and atheistic governments, especially in recent history. It would be unfair to lump secularists in with atheists