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Author Topic: 888: Social Justice in Videogames  (Read 1407433 times)

SomethingAwfulIsOk

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888: Social Justice in Videogames
« on: August 18, 2013, 10:56:18 AM »
+1
This shit deserves its own thread, about half the threads in videogames at one point or another get an insufferable derail about racism or sexism. It got so bad that the mods just made a thread to dump all this shitty discussion in, but the thread itself was so fucking terrible the mods had no choice but to gas that thread. Ozma obviously doesn't want them to ban SJW faggots so the mods are stuck between a rock and a hard place, having to deal with all the faggotry that is drowning the autistic discussion of video games.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 07:31:52 PM by GFR »

SomethingAwfulIsOk

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2013, 10:56:36 AM »
+1
Let's start with Europa Universalis IV. Its a game where you take control of any major country of the world between 1444 and 1820. Obviously, there were certain nations that were more powerful than others, and considering this game masturbates itself to the idea of being as historically accurate as possible, those nations are more powerful in the game.

Cue RACISM

Quote from: SeaTard
From what I can say without delving into NDA breaking territory, there were basically some forum superstars that argued long and hard to keep the eu3 unit and tech group mechanics in place. It sucks, but at least it's trivial to mod.

Quote from: RabidWeasel
What the fuck why would you do that? Who thinks that tech groups / western units being better even at the same tech level is a good idea?

Quote from: skipThings
White supremacists and euro centrists ? People who have no idea about history before WW1 ?

Quote from: Fardel Bear
I went in to the common/technology.txt file and modded out all the extra costs for technologies for the nonwhites, so we'll see how crazy stuff gets. Maybe we'll have a world-spanning Congolese empire.

Quote from: Alikchi
Would you mind hosting this up somewhere? I'd appreciate giving it a shot.

Finally, from the comfort of your own couch, you too can change history and fight against racism in videogames :adam:

SomethingAwfulIsOk

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2013, 10:58:00 AM »
+4
There's this game called "Dragon Crown" that came out a while ago. Its a game about wizards killing trolls and skeletons, you know, the usual videogame. Only there's a catch





 :lilal:

Couldn't possibly show you every bit of faggotry in the thread about this game, so I'll just show you the best of.

Quote from: ...of SCIENCE!
Considering that the game's director called somebody who criticized the female character design gay (specifically, he posted a picture of some of the shirtless, hairy dwarfs and said "He doesn't like big tits and asses, obviously this is more to his liking") I think they're taking their embarrassing character design very seriously.

Get used to this faggot joining every thread about sexism in videogames and shitting on it.

Quote from: Monomythian
Countdown to 'sexism in videogames! BLARHG!' derail by self-righteous blowhards.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Probated for realtalk obviously

Quote from: Luminous Obscurity
Holy moly this game looks creepy

Says the poster with "Holy moly" in his vocabulary and this on his title

Quote from: ImpAtom
There was a rumor going around a while ago that someone saw alternate skins for the characters. Is there anything more about that? They specifically mentioned a "old hag" skin for the Sorceress.

Sorceress is basically the class I would play but I can't stand how she looks. Alternate skins would go a long way towards selling the game.

I want to play this game, but the sexism. THE SEXISM!

Quote from: Lotish
  The dilemma for me is that the art in this game is clearly problematic, but it's also so damn stylish I don't want to care.

I like Anita Sarkeesian's videos. I'm very interested in her response to this if she ever talks about it.

Quote from: Louisgod
Let's talk about Dragon's Crown and not bring up Anita's videos despite them being great. This thread is for the game, how it plays, what people are looking forward to, etc. - discussion of the art at a social layer should be taken elsewhere since it's just gonna derail discussion here.

Said the fagmod meekly

Quote from: Fuzz
This game seems cool, and the Amazon's fighting style seems to be what I'd prefer most, but I just can't get over her shelf-butt and running animation.

Ah well, at least I have Dungeons & Dragons: Chronicles of Mystara!

Quote from: gannyGrabber
Quote from: Veyrall
The Archer's riding pose looks a little spine-breaking. Is she arching her back forward?

She's thrusting her chest out, yeah. The devs saw an opportunity to sexify her, and they took it, I guess.

Quote from: ImpAtom
Quote from: macfam
On the subject of character designs I'd compare it to Team Fortress 2 where every class has distinct silhouettes so that they can be differentiated easily. If every class looked "normal" you wouldn't be able to instantly recognize them like you can now. I think the exaggerated designs serve a practical purpose, not to serve fetishists or be sexist or anything.

 Except when people complained it about, the person behind the artwork made fun of them by claiming they were gay if they didn't like the designs. (Which also had the fun side effect of implying that being gay is bad.) This is pretty clearly not a case where it's about distinctive silhouettes. He later apologized for it but you generally don't go "ha ha, you must be gay if you don't like this design' if you're not intending it in a pretty specific way.

Quote from: octoroon
That's about as good a way as any to retroactivate meaning into some pretty grossly sexist designs, but sure, why not?

Quote from: Spacedad
Some "fan" art by me.



 This game will never live this down nor should it.

Notice the "fan" part. Got to make sure you're not confused for an actual fan of this game but as a warrior fighting for social justice in your anime videogame

Quote from: Gyoru
Review embargo's up today.

 Polygon: 6.5

Links here

http://www.polygon.com/game/dragon-s-crown/9102

 :stewart:

Quote from: MinibarMatchman
Kind of weird that Polygon gave this game the high standards treatment and yet gave DmC an 8/10. A pregnant lady gets shot in the stomach in that game, arguably more terrible than big boobs. But then again, I don't get the "shitloads of violence is fine but tits are just awful" standards in entertainment

Quote from: Neurolimal
Good old fashioned Ultraviolence can be enjoyed by every race and gender of primitive biped ape-things, objectifying women services only straight men (and lesbians I guess), and makes women who aren't already desensitized by the droves of terrible characters in videogames feel unwelcome/that said game isn't "for" them.

Don't mean to rain on this threads parade or anything, just saw a simple question and couldn't resist answering.

Quote from: Rascyc
That Polygon review is just bizarre:

Quote
Two player characters — the Amazon and the Sorceress — are explicitly sexualized, with breasts literally bigger than their heads with rear ends to match, and plenty of the screen real estate is dedicated to their respective jiggles and sashays. But at least these characters are powerful women, with agency and a penchant for destroying rooms full of bad guys.

Agency? In a beat 'em up game? What?

(screw games journalism as usual)

Poking the beehive here

Quote from: miscellaneous14
I'm not sure what your complaint is. The reviewer is saying that at least those characters are strong warriors fighting for their own purposes rather than just being damsels in distress.

Of course that falls into a whole 'nother issue, but I won't get into that here.

Quote from: Rascyc
Ah yes the purpose of making my experience bar fill faster. ~Agency~

My point is more of a poke in the eye of the latest wave of agency discussions where they don't belong. It's a brawler game.

vvv you're totally missing the point but hey keep on white knighting shitty game reviews

Quote from: miscellaneous14
I don't think you know what "agency" means in this context. It's the purpose of the characters in the story, not your intentions in terms of playing as those characters.

e:
   
Quote from: Rascyc
vvv you're totally missing the point but hey keep on white knighting shitty game reviews

Your complaint seems to be that the writer is criticizing the female design, and on the other at least giving it credit for having those characters exist in the story for purposes beyond just servicing the male characters. I have absolutely no idea how this is "bizarre".

Quote from: FrickenMoron
The male characters are just as ridiculous aside from the Wizard. I don't really see the big fuss about it.

Quote from: miscellaneous14
Despite Tycho also defending the character design in the companion blog post, the comic Penny Arcade made on it (slighty ) actually sums up the power fantasy vs sexual fantasy argument pretty well.

"power fantasy vs sexual fantasy argument"  :freud:

Quote from: p.crestmont
I think the point is that this:

Quote
Two player characters — the Amazon and the Sorceress — are explicitly sexualized, with breasts literally bigger than their heads with rear ends to match, and plenty of the screen real estate is dedicated to their respective jiggles and sashays. But at least these characters are powerful women, with agency and a penchant for destroying rooms full of bad guys.

Is some seriously funny shit. I preordered this game and am looking forward to playing it, but come on that is some ridiculous writing.

Quote from: Cerulily
Not really looking to get into a debate on the why's here, but....

Why do you care? this is extremely relevant to some of us. It's funny because you disagree? I'm sure it's a fine game to play, and am considering it myself. But, these elements are part of the package that i do consider when buying games.

 :parsons:

Quote from: CrashCat
The more I see of this game and how it plays out the more I realize how humorless the reviewers who panned it as sexist have to be. This game is so obviously ridiculous and over-the-top, and the boobs flying everywhere are just one facet of it.

A silly brawler shouldn't have nearly so much care put into it and nobody should have bodily proportions like that, which just makes it that much more absurd and glorious.

Quote from: Oxxidation
So what's "absurd and glorious" about the princess-molestation minigame, then

He's talking about this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex133LSR6xE&t=01m

MOLESTATION
SEXUAL ASSAULT
RAPE

Quote from: Spiritus Nox
I just watched the Quick Look over on Giant Bomb, and I was inclined to agree with you until we came to a scene with a wounded lady monk posing with her legs spread right in front of the camera. There's a line that kinda got crossed there.

Also saw the touching video, and that started to get into genuinely uncomfortable territory there.

Quote from: Dominic White
What minigame? You can use the mouse cursor to poke characters in the background during dialogue sequences, but it's as much a fundamental part of the game as the exploding critters (click on them repeatedly and they blow up) in Starcraft.

Quote from: quakster
Welp, the game's even stupider than I thought. Great, now I feel dumb for even giving Atlus the benefit of doubt.

Quote from: Mokinokaro
I'm really glad I didn't preorder this.

I trusted you Atlus and then you went ahead and did this. im shaking right now  :madgoon:

Quote from: ImpAtom
The whole "it's a parody" argument kind of falls flat when the artist got upset and implied people who didn't like the Sorceress/Amazon design were gay. (As if that was a bad thing.) It's certainly got humorous aspects but you can't really argue he was being ironic about that part.

Quote from: Failboattoottoot
ironic sexism is still sexism unless you are incredibly fucking good at handling it, and this game really obviously isn't. There is nothing ironic about what is in this game. It is very clearly homage to old school Conan, D&D, Vallejo and Frazetta.

But more to the point, and the last thing I'll say on the matter at all, is that I get it. If you are excited for something, and other people are like whoa, that shit is sexist as all hell, it feels like they are calling you sexist. But this isn't the case. It is ok to like sexist things. I fancy myself a relatively hardcore feminist and I have tons of games and other media with problematic portrayals of women. This is ok though, because I recognize the sexist elements for what they are.

However, not recognizing these elements, or even worse, rushing to their defense is where the problems start.

Anyway, I cancelled my pre-order. Some of this shit goes too far in my books and I don't see much point in buying a co-op brawler that I never want to play co-op because fuck if I want to explain why I paid 50 bucks for a game with a nun in a chastity belt and a bdsm princess. I will probably nab this in the future though, either through PS+ or as a used game, because I love me some deep brawlers.

Quote from: The Duggler
What? You won't buy the game now because it goes against your principles but you are okay with buying it later when it is cheaper?

Quote from: miscellaneous14
I don't think there's anything wrong with not wanting to buy a game for full price when it has possibly discomforting content.

Quote from: The Duggler
"I find this game absolutely disgusting and will only spend a maximum of $9.99 on this horrible travesty"

Quote from: MotU
I've never looked at a product and said "this goes too far and offends my sensibilities, but if it were 30 dollars cheaper I could compromise a few things."

Quote from: iuvian
Isn't there an actual thread where you social justice shitposters can circle jerk each other off? I would actually like to hear about the actual game, not listen to your Fedora Feminism lectures about anime girls.

 :obama: Not banned or probated for it either

Quote from: Spiritus Nox
Yes, how dare anyone have anything other than unbridled praise for the game that hasn't even been released here yet. Pointing out unfortunate implications and shit is for pussies, right? Why do we have to destroy the poor game (which, by the by, still looks fun as shit just going by the Giant Bomb vid) like this?

 :lolno:

Quote from: Ruddha
Not a SJW myself, but alas: I could not possibly force myself to play this game. A lot of it seems very fun and cool; however, the way a lot of the women look makes me feel uncomfortable when I see it, because it's so messed up to my mind to draw a cartoon person that looks that way. The reason is my mind doesn't like hypersexualized drawings or renderings, even a best selling hentai wouldn't be able to change my mind, because my brain sees it immediately as being creepy and weird as hell. I hope everyone who buys it has a bigtime good experience playing the game, I just simply couldn't do it myself. Thank you very much for reading my post today.

Quote from: Thundercracker
One of the few things "Creating Awareness" actually can and have fixed is products, especially media products. The more people raise a stink about this the less likely a producer is going to make the same mistake in the future. You see this all the time in movies on how they treat women now vs. then (it's incremental and imperfect, but it's real)

In short, if this gets enough outrage, you can bet that Vanillaware or any other developer will think twice about including titty monsters in their next title.

 :clint:

SomethingAwfulIsOk

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2013, 10:58:15 AM »
0
This one is actually a pretty great read and proof that SA is not completely taken over by faggotry. This controversial game about murdering people as a hitman has a fake-rape scene in it.

Quote from: Sweeney Tom
PC Gamer did a preview and...um...well...

http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/hotline-miami-2-wrong-number/

Links to this, read it if you care, but basically all it says is that there's a rape scene in the game.

Quote from: The Ass Stooge
I'm very, very skeptical of any piece of media that uses sexual violence for shock value or to elicit an emotional response. Unless done expertly, it comes off as cheap and puerile, and I'm sorry to say I don't have high hopes for Hotline Miami 2's ability to pull it off. I can't make a judgement until the game is actually out, but Ellison's impression is very worrying.

Quote from: Closet Cyborg
Game intended to make people uncomfortable with their actions makes person feel uncomfortable with their actions. I agree that just shoehorning rape in everywhere tends to be juvenile and tasteless, but it could work. Playing the first game in the middle of the night just before my meds kicked in made me feel quite unsettled and queasy, but since that was the purpose, I'd count it as a win for Cactus. If upping the ante on disquieting themes can produce that effect for non-crazy people, I'd say it's worth a shot.

Quote from: Babe Magnet
The game is actively making fun of and dismissing people who use rape as a shock tactic to make their works for edgy and "mature", though I can guess that's hard to see when you're so hellbent on viewing anything even approaching the subject of "rape", whether in a positive or negative light, as something evil that must be erased. The director, who's intent to use rape just to make his film darker, is depicted as an obvious scumbag and just a shitty person in general. The game is not using rape to make itself seem more horrible and edgy, it is trashing those people who do.

But no, implied rape, lets not do any research or think about it too hard, lets just go back to murdering hundreds of dogs and people with drills and screwdrivers where it's safe.

Well, this is not too bad. I wonder when the faggotry comes in. HERE IT IS  :ultlibrage:

Quote from: ...of SCIENCE!
You didn't see murder victims complaining about the first game, roughly one-fifth of women just need to grow a thicker skin  :smug:

Quote from: Trainmonk
Wow yeah gonna enjoy reading every straight white male gamer opinion about how the sexual assault thing "totally works". It definitely makes you uncomfortable and that's what he was clearly going for, but is it okay...?

The answer, of course, is no.

Quote from: moths
I'm mad that this is in the game. I completely loved HM1 but there's no way I can get behind supporting sexual violence, even if it's "simulated".

People will whine about slacktivism and boycotts and social justice whatevers, buy I'm just talking myself here. This is a game I was looking forward to that I'm now very uncomfortable with. It's a shit in the pool I wanted to swim in.

E supporting sexual violence in a game, obviously

Quote from: Trainmonk
Quote from: Babe Magnet
But no, implied rape, lets not do any research or think about it too hard, lets just go back to murdering hundreds of dogs and people with drills and screwdrivers where it's safe.

 Man I love this argument, the one where you excuse it because of all the murder your character does. Like there are any murder victims around to be triggered. Bonus points for using it in a sentence where you criticize people for not thinking hard enough.

Quote from: ...of SCIENCE!
Thank god the white male game devs are here to tell us how awful rape is! If only women would stop being so hysterical so we could enjoy some real commentary in the form of this blood shootymans game.

Quote from: voltron lion force
Quote from: moths
I'm mad that this is in the game. I completely loved HM1 but there's no way I can get behind supporting sexual violence, even if it's "simulated".


Haha how is it "supporting sexual violence"?

Quote from: Trainmonk
Man I love this argument, the one where you excuse it because of all the murder your character does. Like there are any murder victims to around to be triggered. Bonus points for using it in a sentence where you criticize people for not thinking hard enough.

 Well the loved ones of the murdered could perhaps be "triggered".

Quote from: Trainmonk
Do you think a lot of people who get triggered by a loved ones murder play ultra violent murder games?

Also that's not the same at all by the way.

Quote from: Trainmonk
The shock value is only good for triggering actual rape victims. The commentary about how rape is dumb or whatever is completely worthless afterwards.

Quote from: voltron lion force
I don't agree with that. I think most people, even those that aren't rape victims, can be shocked by its depiction.

Quote from: Trainmonk
Pointlessly shocked. That's why I said it's "only good for" triggering.

Quote from: voltron lion force
I think the Babe Magnet explained a perfectly valid point to it. I assume you don't think that's pointy enough though.

Quote from: Trainmonk
He made a terrible point, it's the opposite of a perfectly valid point. The developer making fun of other developers using rape for shock value by using rape for shock value did nothing except the exact same thing, with some worthless commentary afterward.

Quote from: Trainmonk
Quote from: Fag Boy Jim
i think an analysis of the entire game is necessary to really see if something like this "works"- the rape scene in Straw Dogs is horrific out of context, and very arguably horrific in context, but criticisms of it that don't take the full context of the film into account can't be considered informed

No, it's not necessary. The criticism is that rape shouldn't be in video games, not how effective the commentary is.

IN UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CAN RAPE BE IN VIDEOGAMES :ultlibrage:

Quote from: voltron lion force
See you say the commentary is worthless, but it re-frames the whole situation. But I see now that there is literally no way you'd ever be ok with this so whatever.

Quote from: Trainmonk
You're missing the point entirely, over and over. The commentary is worthless because it doesn't even work. Look at all these people, including you, who don't even agree with what it's saying. It's saying it shouldn't be used for shock value in video games and you cheer on an example of it that happened right before it, like idiots.

Quote from: Miltank
That isn't what it is saying either. And there doesn't have to be general consensus on a work for it to have worth.

Quote from: Fag Boy Jim
once again, it's germane that nobody has the knowledge of the full context of that scene.

not to mention that lack of consensus about meaning is not indicative of the effectiveness of any given work.

Quote from: Trainmonk
Once again, it shouldn't even be there so who cares if I know exactly what it means.

Quote from: Fag Boy Jim
that's impossible to say without knowing how the scene fits in context, come off it.

Quote from: Miltank
Why not? This game isn't Mario.

Quote from: Trainmonk
Rape commentary isn't just any commentary. Rape commentary has victims.

e: Victims OF IT I mean. It hurts people.

Quote from: Babe Magnet
You don't play the rape part. It's literally 10 seconds, maybe, of a non-interactive cutscene. Why does it being in a videogame matter? Are videogames not allowed to have as heavy themes as movies or books?

Quote from: Trainmonk
Yeah but that doesn't matter because the article that spawned this discussion clearly shows how affected someone was by what little happened. Do you think a rape victim can be triggered less than fully?

SOMEONE WAS OFFENDED! BAN IT  :ultlibrage:

Quote from: Trainmonk
Quote from: Miltank
Quote from: Trainmonk
So do war movies honestly. I know it is by know means a 1-1 comparison, but there is tons of media that can potentially trigger PTSD in victims.

 So do war movies honestly. I know it is by know means a 1-1 comparison, but there is tons of media that can potentially trigger PTSD in victims.

 Maybe we shouldn't have those either then? I don't know what you're trying to tell me here.

Fuck :facepalm:

Quote from: RBA Starblade
Do you really think not talking about rape will improve anything? Will ignoring it change rape culture for the better?

Logic? In my hysterical rants against rape culture? I don't think so :goonette:

Quote from: Trainmonk
Nope, I don't think that and I never implied anything close to thinking that. I don't know why you think I believe that, because having a bunch of rapes in books or videogames or movies is nothing like actually discussing rape.

Quote from: RBA Starblade
Media is really, really good at starting discussions and spreading awareness of an issue, discussions that can't start if you never bring it up and pretend it isn't there.

Quote from: Trainmonk
What they're really, really good at is normalizing rape and artificially darkening their writing of a character. What actual people are good at is discussing it, and they do it often with no help from movie rape #3059.

Quote from: RBA Starblade
So you don't think removing commentary and mention of rape isn't going to just perpetuate that culture too? You said rape commentary shouldn't be written about because it can trigger people and because, in works of fiction, it can't be done tastefully (obviously). Short of news articles saying "this person was raped" I don't see what that leaves, and I don't see how that can trigger much discussion or change, especially in areas like that shithole town in Ohio that was on the news recently.

Quote from: Trainmonk
I don't want to talk to you anymore.

 :lolno:

Quote from: Trainmonk
We, or I, am talking about what a piece of shit cactus or whoever is for doing this.

RAPE IN VIDEOGAMES? YOU PIECE OF SHIT  :ultlibrage:

Quote from: Miltank
If you think that a butcher in a pig mask shooting a women in the gut and then raping her is normalizing rape you are dead wrong. If anything these depictions of rape are dangerous because they otherize the rapist too strongly. The vast majority of rapists know their victims personally.

More logic? Haven't they learned how useless it is yet?

Quote from: Trainmonk
I don't think that and I didn't make any sort of implication to that. All I said was that the media is good at normalizing rape.

Quote from: Fag Boy Jim
This is true, but I don't think it's a good case for deciding that it's completely verboten to be put into media.

Quote from: Trainmonk
Nope, I clearly said that everyone is free to be as terrible as they want with their "artistic vision".

Quote from: Fag Boy Jim
Your position seems to still be that all fictionalized depictions of rape are unambiguously bad, regardless of their context.

Quote from: Trainmonk
Unless it's a fictitious example of rape in like a textbook, yeah that's basically how I feel. 

Quote from: Zombies' Downfall
Have you ever considered the notion that your singular repulsion to the concept of rape and its depiction is precisely why media and stories should and sometimes need to use it? It evokes concepts and emotions that a spirited argument or a gunfight can't. It can be used cheaply or salaciously (like consensual sex, or non-sexual violence) and it might be here, but the idea that there's no such thing as a justifiable depiction of it is betrayed by the severity of your own response.

Unless you think media and art has a responsibility not to shock, upset, or horrify people which... I dunno. I guess that's a coherent position, but I think it's a pretty depressing one.

Hotline Miami was also partly inspired by Drive, and I think it's fair to say Nicolas Winding Refn's oeuvre is problematic. Also great, but it's worth mentioning

Quote from: Trainmonk
My repulsion comes from the way it hurts people, not the feelings of discomfort. As far as I'm concerned, depictions of rape are careless, hurtful, ignorant aggressions towards innocent people.

Quote from: MadBimber
So,...Hotline Miami? I don't know, I've always been taught not to try to compare miseries. rape is bad. Killing is bad.

Quote from: Babe Magnet
Rape commentary should be allowed in anything that wants to put it in, because censorship kills creative works, and even if I agreed with you that it couldn't be handled maturely, I wouldn't agree that completely shutting down any discussion of it would be any better. This does not mean I think people should be immune to the consequences of their actions just becuase they say it's a work of art. If some shithead wants to add rape completely out of context to a work of theirs for shock value or anything like that, than they deserve any backlash they get, and if the Hotline Miami devs sink because they mentioned rape in their game, than so be it, they went into this project knowing full-well what kind of reception they could get.

As for being triggered by rape in a game, that sucks pretty hard, but it's well within the developer's rights to put whatever they want in their game.

Quote from: Trainmonk
Yep, do whatever you want. Be as terrible a person as you want to be, and be wrong about everything you do.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

The faggotry was so intense a mod had to step in and probate him :obama:

Quote from: Mr. Unlucky
Now you can have your rape fantasies and eat it too, all you have to do is post indignantly about it on a message board for a little while in order to convince yourself you're above such a thing.

realtalk. Does not get banned or probated

RAPE CULTURE WINS AGAIN :reagan:

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2013, 11:02:28 AM »
0
Europa Universalis/Paradox games in general are hilarious. They attract both ends of the spectrum. The Social Justice goons who totally want a Native American Social-Matriarchy kind of game (and you can have that with mods, no problem) as shown in the thread and the retarded Balkan nationalists that act like fucking Borat ("Kazakh is greetes countri in world, why so bad in this gaem???!?!?").

Crusader Kings had a few discussions about race and racial purity too because it so happens that your guy might look slightly brown if you marry into Arab/Italian bloodlines.

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2013, 11:30:11 AM »
+4
The whole Dragon's Crown thing started with a Kotaku article saying "Vanillaware needs to stop letting 14 year old boys design their games". The lead artist and PRESIDENT OF THE COMPANY responded with this:


Of course, this dude is Japanese, so he cares a lot less about these things. Even his 'friendly' response later pretty much amounted to "yeah, I understand what you mean, but I doubt I'll be following your advice in the future". Meanwhile people like CliffyB and Tim Schafer are approving of SJW thought by default.

And another thing... here's how someone who worked on a video game one time, but generally makes his money from the film industry, reacted to this bullshit:

http://www.destructoid.com/james-gunn-some-sexism-controversies-are-silly--231713.phtml
http://www.destructoid.com/lollipop-chainsaw-s-james-gunn-talks-sexiness-and-sexism-231523.phtml

Note how different this is from public figures who are tied to 'gamer culture'. He doesn't care if Kotaku or IGN thinks he's a cis bigot because he's not normally part of this industry. Hence, legit realtalk.

Quote
"Oh, I see ... you mean that the creators decided to make the sexy nuns in the first place. Well, admittedly, that trailer IS shocking as hell. But, that's the point, isn't it? I think 'shocking' is written into the Hitman franchise's DNA.  As for the 'controversy' surrounding it, I just watched the trailer again on YouTube -- there were 3,200 'likes' and 130 'dislikes.' That doesn't really seem controversial. Obviously most people don't give a shit."

Gunn closed by saying that a lot of the controversies are made up by news sites looking for content
Quote
"But I think it's important people don't confuse sexuality with sexism. There is nothing in the game, ever, that makes females somehow less than males. To be honest, I think a lot of the criticisms of LC's 'sexism' are really coming from a place where the secret message is sex is bad, sexual attraction is bad, lust is bad. I was raised Catholic: I get it. Yes, Juliet Starling is hot as hell. And, yes, that probably helps to sell copies of the game. But my question is, so what? How in the world does that convey that women are less than men?"

Quote
"I think more than worrying about how fictional women are treated in fictional worlds, we should care about how real women are treated in our real world"

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2013, 12:58:59 PM »
+4
my eyes started to glaze pretty fast... Srsly, SAIOK, it's called "quote mining" because you look for the gems not because you copy half of the SJW posts you see.
The whole Dragon's Crown thing started with a Kotaku article saying "Vanillaware needs to stop letting 14 year old boys design their games". The lead artist and PRESIDENT OF THE COMPANY responded with this:
Holy shit I want to high-five this jap. That's how every single SJW concern troll should be handled: laugh at them and call them gay :nixon:

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2013, 01:55:25 PM »
+1
Oh look it's spacedad. That guy is such a pussy soft-dick it hurts.
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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2013, 03:50:09 PM »
0
Quote
The commentary is worthless because it doesn't even work. Look at all these people, including you, who don't even agree with what it's saying.
this quote tells you a lot about the Outraged at Vidya Rape SJW types. a commentary is not meant to be one person's opinion or part of a dialogue, its meant to tell everyone the proper and correct way of thinking, which is then agreed upon unanimously and closed for discussion. disagreement with the commentary is something only cisbigots or MRAs would do.

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a torrent of piss

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2013, 03:52:33 PM »
0
Oh look it's spacedad. That guy is such a pussy soft-dick it hurts.
He's interning at a company that promotes sexism and rape culture, they make that Animation Domination show on Fox.

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2013, 04:06:24 PM »
0
SJW faggotry is pretty much strangling Games slowly to death.  They tried to rein it in with Kewpuh's sassy mod rule about SJW:s whining about sexism in games being worthless, but now that post is gone, for some reason.  :jesse:

Nowadays you can pick pretty much any thread and you're guaranteed to find someone being uncomfortable with the game's content or offended that there are no female soldiers in the trenches of a post-apocalyptic war, or if they are they're dressed wrong or whatever. Everything is sexist and racist and all that can only be cured by whining about it on the forums. 

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2013, 05:20:17 PM »
0
Where's all the shit about Far Cry 3 and the white man and killing endangered species?

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2013, 06:00:59 PM »
0
Where's all the shit about Far Cry 3 and the white man and killing endangered species?

Far Cry 3 thread was fucking unreadable because of that shit.

Now I agree that it was ridiculous and taking itself too seriously and shit, but goons just fucking went on and on and on about it.

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2013, 08:02:16 PM »
+2
I will not stop my gay internet crusade until Toejam and Earl get a big gay wedding
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This was posted on the page before, but I was only able to catch up on this thread now. I'd like to point out that not all lesbian relationships have two vaginas, and it really sucks as a queer trans woman to hear this sort of generalization all the time.

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2013, 08:09:45 PM »
0
Now I agree that it was ridiculous and taking itself too seriously and shit, but goons just fucking went on and on and on about it.

You don't say!

How can goons continue their vidya game and Japan worship when they blow a gasket at any hint of sexism, racism, or "creepy" content? Surely it's time to turn on Japan for their patriarchy and rampant sexism. Goons do love to bring up fucking Unit 731 when they get the chance, probably because it reminds them of that SCP faggotry.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 08:10:50 PM by Backpfeifengesicht »
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The Conservatives have a slogan which I think is despicable and defeatist: "It's better to be dead than red." And the Commies and Liberals have a slogan which is even worse, it's treason, they say: "It's better to be red than dead." We say this: "You don't have to be Red and you don't have to be Dead. Not dead. Not Red. Dead Reds"


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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2013, 09:50:09 PM »
0
I'm curious what percentage of onsite traffic is in the games forums.  Seems like Lord Richard wouldn't want his ban/unban $10 factory to dry up like that.
rofl I have a sig

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2013, 05:36:37 AM »
+3
Europa Universalis is the perfect example because although Europe is made unrealistically strong quite early (which results in some hilarious nonsense like the Swedish landing in Japan with 2000 men in 1430 and slaughtering armies 5X their size) this is essentially a cop-out due to practicality. The actual reasons for Europe's eventual dominance are extremely complex and it makes alot more sense to instead of spending an extra year balancing an extra two dozen factors that will eventually lead to European technological superiority, just slap the non-European cultures with various levels of shitty tech groups and move on to other parts of the game. Greater level of abstraction produces almost identical results.


Of course you can still get upset about how this is  :madgoon: 'justifying colonialism and genocide eurocentrism blah blah'  :madgoon: but the game is about the era of European dominance and colonialism. If you want to play a game where Western Europeans aren't sailing around the world taking land and forming colonies than why exactly are you even here, go play Civilization bitch. I get the feeling these people won't be satisfied until videogames are either all about cooperation and centered on building equitable relationships between consenting partners, or the game bombards you with preachy whining everytime your paladin kills an orc that lives in a matriarchal society free of strife or poverty.

Alas SJW love their videogames and having played them constantly their whole lives have been conditioned to accept violence as part of a game. This forces them to make some hilarious logical backflips in order to assume that rape is completely unacceptable in a game, but running around shooting police officers is a-ok. Some people who are victims of rape could be disturbed by the inclusion of rape in a game, that isn't an unreasonable statement. I've never even been raped before and I find films with prolonged rape scenes rather disturbing. On the same token, torture is also something I find rather disturbing and so films like Saw or what-not I tend to avoid.

The answer to all this is, 'so what'?  Plenty of people are uncomfortable with all sorts of content, yet these people single out rape as some uniquely awful crime that can never be depicted in fiction unlike everything else in the history of mankind. If the content is disturbing to you, don't watch it. If CoD reminds you of your days in 'Nam, maybe turn off your fucking Playstation 3 and go do something else. The adults are talking and if you can't handle it, leave.

Tomb Raider was a goddamn honeypot for these types. The only reason this game got the attention it did is because the main character is a woman. The frequent scenes of peril, the litany of elaborately detailed deaths, none of these would have raised any eyebrows if the person you were watching get impaled in HD had a dick. SJW want this both ways, they want women to be portrayed as men would be but at the same time they demand special treatment for 'female experiences', as if being a woman or not has anything to do with fighting space pirates or being trapped on a hostile island. Both of these conditions are impossible to fulfill at the same time because either you treat your female characters like men (subject to brutal violence along with everyone else) which makes you a misogynist, or you 'protect' your female characters either by keeping them out of the action or just not including them, opening you to charges of 'putting women on a pedestal' or 'silencing women's voices'.

The only way to win is to make a game where you play a gender-fluid two spirit female identifying Person of Color (of size as well!) who enlightens white males about their privilege.

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2013, 05:40:51 AM »
+1
Posted this in Goons.RSS thread but it belongs here so I'll repost:


New Vidya game EU4 is out.  It's kinda like civilization but from the year 1445-1820 or so.  Goons are really unhappy that Western European nations have both superior technology and superior military units to the rest of the world and that the only way non western countries can get military units that are equivalent in power is if they "westernize" and go through all kinds of disadvantages during that process.  You know, kinda like the Ottoman Turks/Japan did historically when they figured out that just buying new guns from France or Prussia didn't magically give them Prussian infantry.


Quote from: skipThings
Quote from: RabidWeasel
What the fuck why would you do that? Who thinks that tech groups / western units being better even at the same tech level is a good idea?


White supremacists and euro centrists ? People who have no idea about history before WW1 ?

Yeah you see, historically all the non European nations needed to do to get a military that was as effective as Napoleonic infantry was to just get the same guns France was using so that they could achieve the same "tech level".  No "westernization" was ever required.

Quote from: Fardels Bear

I went in to the common/technology.txt file and modded out all the extra costs for technologies for the nonwhites, so we'll see how crazy stuff gets. Maybe we'll have a world-spanning Congolese empire.

Finally!  A victory against white supremacist programing hidden in video games!


:lomo2:    :lomo2:  
Chomp!  I'll totally be motivated to get off my ass, overcome my social anxiety and fear of failure and go to college once Bernie Sanders gives it to me for free like a handy from Lomos mom in an Arby's Men's room-I mean a Gender Inclusive Rest Facility.

Autistic Yankee

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2013, 06:22:27 AM »
+7
This fucking "these people know nothing about history  :smug:" goon makes me so god damn mad.  Sorry goon but its you who knows nothing about history.

Just having access to the same technology of your opponent doesn't mean you magically get to have a military thats just as effective as his.  In the Roman era it was the Roman Legion that dominated the battlefield.  Many other nations tried to field infantry to compete against them but it never really worked.  Eventually people figured out that the best way to beat Roman Legions was to have Roman Legions of your own.  They saw full well that the most damaging battles Rome fought was against itself in civil wars where Roman Legions fought other actual Roman Legions.

Many kings all over the known world tried to create Roman Legions of their own.  They spent ridiculous amounts of money creating the exact same weapons and armor that the Romans used.  They even hired disgruntled ex-Roman generals to lead their armies in battle.  Guess what?  These Faux-Roman troops were never able to fight like actual real Roman Legionaries.  It just didn't work.  They looked like Roman Legions, they acted like Roman Legions, but they could never fight like Roman Legions.


And I'm not just making this argument to say that western white people nation armies are superior to non white people armies.  Sorry goons, but this isn't a "white supremacist" argument I'm making.  Fuck, go look at the Mongols for Christ sake.  The Mongol horse archer was quite possibly the most devastating military weapon in the pre-gunpowder era.  But if you went and took some European soldiers and gave them a Mongol bow and a Mongol horse, they didn't magically become Mongol Horse Archers.  It's not the fucking technology that makes the unit effective.  Its way more complex than that.  Hell, Mongol soldiers who were stationed in foreign lands like China for long enough stopped being effective Mongol Horse Archers in battle when they returned to the military.  What made them effective was a culture.  A lifestyle.  Something that had to be done every single day.

But nope, these goons don't like that argument.  They think that if the Cherokee Indians had access to ships and gunpower, it might have been the Native Americans that colonized Europe.  ALL HUMANS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME BEEP BOOP

« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 06:28:02 AM by Lomo Taxual »
:lomo2:    :lomo2:  
Chomp!  I'll totally be motivated to get off my ass, overcome my social anxiety and fear of failure and go to college once Bernie Sanders gives it to me for free like a handy from Lomos mom in an Arby's Men's room-I mean a Gender Inclusive Rest Facility.

Enjoy

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2013, 09:32:12 AM »
0
Europa Universalis is the perfect example because although Europe is made unrealistically strong quite early (which results in some hilarious nonsense like the Swedish landing in Japan with 2000 men in 1430 and slaughtering armies 5X their size) this is essentially a cop-out due to practicality. The actual reasons for Europe's eventual dominance are extremely complex and it makes alot more sense to instead of spending an extra year balancing an extra two dozen factors that will eventually lead to European technological superiority, just slap the non-European cultures with various levels of shitty tech groups and move on to other parts of the game. Greater level of abstraction produces almost identical results.


Of course you can still get upset about how this is  :madgoon: 'justifying colonialism and genocide eurocentrism blah blah'  :madgoon: but the game is about the era of European dominance and colonialism. If you want to play a game where Western Europeans aren't sailing around the world taking land and forming colonies than why exactly are you even here, go play Civilization bitch. I get the feeling these people won't be satisfied until videogames are either all about cooperation and centered on building equitable relationships between consenting partners, or the game bombards you with preachy whining everytime your paladin kills an orc that lives in a matriarchal society free of strife or poverty.

modelling the actual reasons would make it a much better game though, since paradox games are mostly about modelling historical trends rather than having engaging gameplay (paradox games are pretty boring compared to the total war series). the reasons are mostly represented already, they just aren't linked to tech closely enough. this is glaring when you look at the ottoman empire example, since its stagnation was mostly thanks to european trade being diverted away from the ottoman controlled trade routes. the fall of constantinople occurs at the start of the eu games, and the apex of the empire is probably the siege of malta in 1565. the ottoman empire could have easily retained hegemony and stymied european growth if its navy were just a little larger and its palaces a little less luxurious.

ck2 goes some way to correcting this by having polities improve military tech by fighting wars, and eu4 should have completed this trend by linking economic tech with trading mechanics. i really doubt this would have taken much time to balance, ck2 switched from the tech spread system to the points system in one DLC. hell, maybe they are working on this right now with an eu4 DLC.

the flaws of this system are pretty obvious when you compare the various nomadic conquerors over time with how paradox treats them: in ck2, the magyars (ie hungary) suffer no disadvantage in tech for being a horde that settles down, whereas the crimean khanate in eu3 is completely doomed to be gobbled up (even though it survived historically until 1783, almost the end of the eu3 gamespan) just because of the tech group system.

And I'm not just making this argument to say that western white people nation armies are superior to non white people armies.  Sorry goons, but this isn't a "white supremacist" argument I'm making.  Fuck, go look at the Mongols for Christ sake.  The Mongol horse archer was quite possibly the most devastating military weapon in the pre-gunpowder era.  But if you went and took some European soldiers and gave them a Mongol bow and a Mongol horse, they didn't magically become Mongol Horse Archers.  It's not the fucking technology that makes the unit effective.  Its way more complex than that.  Hell, Mongol soldiers who were stationed in foreign lands like China for long enough stopped being effective Mongol Horse Archers in battle when they returned to the military.  What made them effective was a culture.  A lifestyle.  Something that had to be done every single day.

But nope, these goons don't like that argument.  They think that if the Cherokee Indians had access to ships and gunpower, it might have been the Native Americans that colonized Europe.  ALL HUMANS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME BEEP BOOP

i don't think "culture" explains much. the roman legions were strong in comparison to the decentralised celts thanks to the logistics available to a centralised state.

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2013, 10:53:04 AM »
+2
i've never seen nor heard of so many people bitch and whine over anything as inconsequential as the depiction of a woman in a forgettable vidya gayme. these pieces of human deritus are overgrown babies, crying and screeching if their tool for escaping the world for another 5 minutes isnt up to snuff. i made a reddit account so i could finally unsubscribe from their video game forums for showing up on the front page because they take pride in posting pictures of a character in a video game exploring the outside world and screaming about how it defined their childhood without any hint of irony or shame. now i see they're coming out with some 3d headset shit or whatever for video games? someone start the countdown until widespread deaths from malnutrition and starvation begin because these goons forget to take a 5 minute break from pretending to be conan the barbarian to eat. this shit is the opiate dens of the 2000s.

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2013, 11:32:23 AM »
0
how fucking deranged to you have to be to spend hours upon hours of your life arguing with other autists about sexism in a video game?
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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2013, 11:56:03 AM »
+3
how fucking deranged to you have to be to spend hours upon hours of your life arguing with other autists about sexism in a video game?

Maybe not deranged but certainly unemployed.

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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2013, 12:04:52 PM »
0
how fucking deranged to you have to be to spend hours upon hours of your life arguing with other autists about sexism in a video game?

Maybe not deranged but certainly unemployed.

unemployment causes derangement IMO.  See every troon and SJW
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Re: Social Justice in Videogames
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2013, 01:06:12 PM »
0
unemployment causes derangement IMO.

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Trigger warning: the second video contains powerful audio of the man’s fragmented urine stream.