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Author Topic: "Freemen" are insane.  (Read 7169 times)

Monostats Infected Scrotum

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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2013, 07:33:03 PM »
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I've read about these "freeman" dipshits, and the only reason I'm not using the facepalm emote is because I'd probably crash the forum due to how many I need to sum up their utter stupidity.

Instead, read the below link, which explains in detail their epic level of stupid:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freeman-on-the-land
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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2013, 07:59:32 PM »
+1
I've read about these "freeman" dipshits, and the only reason I'm not using the facepalm emote is because I'd probably crash the forum due to how many I need to sum up their utter stupidity.

Instead, read the below link, which explains in detail their epic level of stupid:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freeman-on-the-land

"Rational"wiki though.  Sheriffs as "pseudolaw". :allears:

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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2013, 08:30:53 PM »
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Linked on wikipedia, an amusing court document:

http://canlii.ca/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html

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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2013, 08:58:00 PM »
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Linked from the page for Freemen on the land:

Quote from: Wikipedia
Some tax protesters (and occasionally persons brought before courts[5]) have argued that because the titles of court cases identify the parties in all capital letters, the persons thus identified are "fictitious entities". In other words, a court hearing a case titled "STATE v. JOHN Q. SMITH" has no authority over the defendant, "John Q. Smith" because the capitalization of the name means the court is addressing a person who does not exist. Such an argument was made by Eddie Ray Kahn, a co-defendant of Wesley Snipes in the latter's high-profile tax evasion case. Kahn "made several missteps and peculiar motions. For example, he sought to be immediately freed because the indictment lists his name in all capital letters, and he claimed U.S. attorneys have no jurisdiction because Florida supposedly was never ceded to the federal government". The court denied these motions.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester_conspiracy_arguments#.22Capital_letters.22_argument
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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2013, 11:12:24 PM »
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And troons aren't? Do go on.

 :adam:

I suppose I should rephrase that: troons are trying to masquerade as normal and failing on a grand scale, while the freemen types could conceivably just keep their mouths shut and blend in (but rarely do). I'm repelled by troons and feel like they don't belong in my society, but it's hard for a homely "woman" with a 5 o'clock shadow and a chip on xir shoulder about everything to avoid scrutiny. The Dale Gribble taser guy could stop babbling about not being a person and might not get a second look.
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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2014, 01:52:52 PM »
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Here's the Third Circuit opinon: http://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/114553p.pdf

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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2014, 02:16:40 PM »
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What are Freemen?  Are these the goons that are like "I didn't sign the social contract, thus I'm not a part of your society.  I may live in the USA but I don't consider myself a citizen and thus I am exempt from all taxes and laws."
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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2014, 05:25:10 AM »
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To be fair, Libertarians have a lot in common with Freemen.

Freeman have just taken certain ideas a few steps further and have developed enough stupid/crazy to believe that they can defeat the evil, illegitimate government if they just speak the correct magic words.
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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2014, 08:22:26 AM »
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To be fair, Libertarians have a lot in common with Freemen.

Freeman have just taken certain ideas a few steps further and have developed enough stupid/crazy to believe that they can defeat the evil, illegitimate government if they just speak the correct magic words.
You got Freemen right but Libertarians way wrong.
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cis scum 1.0

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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2014, 10:25:30 AM »
+1
yeah libertarians and freemen have pretty much nothing in common, but lurker with 6 posts so I'm guessing the goon is strong in this one :adam:

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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2014, 11:43:28 AM »
+4
libertarians and freemen have tons in common are you kidding

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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2014, 12:19:26 PM »
+4
Fat, fedora wearing retards on the internet that call themselves libertarians probably aren't actually any kind of libertarian.


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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2014, 12:58:50 PM »
+5
yeah libertarians and freemen have pretty much nothing in common, but lurker with 6 posts so I'm guessing the goon is strong in this one :adam:

I wouldn't say nothing in common. If libertarians are feminists saying "Women should have ready access to inexpensive abortions", then FREEMEN ON THE LAND are the trannies screaming about how its bigoted for lesbians to not let them fuck them with their lady cocks, not all women have vaginas, and any penetrative sex that involves a male penis and not a female penis is rape.
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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2014, 01:39:02 PM »
+1
Some dubious ideas which seem common in Libertarianism have been taken to absurd extremes by the Freemen - most of all that government is fundamentally illegitimate, and that they can opt out of it if they choose. I think the 'legal strawman' Fremen go on about has strong links to the whackier theories about the federal reserve.

I'm almost certainly going to run into the same problem as discussing other -isms. Anything I think of as characteristic of Libertarianism may not endorsed by an individual Libertarian. Or I could be flat wrong.

Government and authority should have to continually justify their power. That the state doesn't necessarily take precedence over the individual or have his best interests at heart are central principles in English-derived law (granted, they're being removed at varying speeds, depending on your location). But claiming that the state is illegitimate (wherever you are) seems a bit like claiming that gender is a construct; it may work inside your head, but if that belief collides with reality, reality is not going to change.

If Libertarianism is broadly opposed to government and taxation in principle and/or practice, or proposes a time when those things are going to be eliminated or cut back to the individual's liking, it seems like an armchair philosophy.

Reducing Libertarianism to 'Anarchism for people with property and jobs' would be clumsy, but it has the same never-gonna-happen feel to it. Not dissimilar to how the commies (more accurately, students in the west who adopted communism for a few seasons) dreamed that the state would wither away once all those proles and peasants were Educated and rationally treated each other fairly forever.

Seriously, have any nation-states in history ever actually been run according to Libertarian principles? Avoiding zany suggestions like Russia under Yeltsin, Thailand, Somalia, etc., are there any?
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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2014, 01:55:17 PM »
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Aren't you conflating internet libertarianism with anarchy a little bit? The Randbot stereotype isn't the same thing as the libertarian who favors constitutionally limited government. Freemen are more like the former - the ones that want to just go inna woods with their sovereign citizen buddies to form the core of the Free Republic of Carl's militia or whatever.
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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2014, 03:09:33 AM »
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anarcho capitalism 4 lyfe

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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2014, 03:10:16 AM »
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Seriously, have any nation-states in history ever actually been run according to Libertarian principles? Avoiding zany suggestions like Russia under Yeltsin, Thailand, Somalia, etc., are there any?

lol at post soviet russia and post communist somalia being called libertarian utopias

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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2014, 06:02:29 PM »
+1
Aren't you conflating internet libertarianism with anarchy a little bit? The Randbot stereotype isn't the same thing as the libertarian who favors constitutionally limited government. Freemen are more like the former - the ones that want to just go inna woods with their sovereign citizen buddies to form the core of the Free Republic of Carl's militia or whatever.

I was taking care not to place all Libertarians at the lunatic end of the spectrum. But one part of the Libertarian rainbow does contain arachnid-capitalist randbots, even if they're cunts.

Internet/fedora/dipshit Libertarians do share some shakier ideas with Freemanism - heroic individuals with god-given platonic freedom, constrained by a society they never signed up for, etc. Fremen have just added magical thinking, upped the cult factor, and usually have a shitload of debt they'd like to get out of.

You seem to agree that the two overlap or have a fair bit in common, which was all I was saying above.

Whether the overlapping beliefs are core Libertarian values might depend on whether you (or your idea of real Libertarians) think that government is fundamentally illegitimate, or that it needs to be heavily checked and regulated.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 06:58:17 PM by Hogbox »
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Hogbox

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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2014, 06:07:56 PM »
+2
Seriously, have any nation-states in history ever actually been run according to Libertarian principles? Avoiding zany suggestions like Russia under Yeltsin, Thailand, Somalia, etc., are there any?

lol at post soviet russia and post communist somalia being called libertarian utopias

How did you read utopia into of that short list of fucked up countries I mentioned?

I was just trying to think of countries that were laissez-faire as fuck. The fact that they tend to be shitholes was kind of the point.

Seriously though, are there any functioning countries that are or were run according to Libertarian principles?
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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #45 on: May 01, 2014, 06:43:37 PM »
+1
Let me defend Somalia for a second.

Somalia is a shithole.  This is true.  But that's when you compare it to normal western nations.  If you compare present day, no government, anarchy Somalia with its neighbors, or better yet with ITSELF from like 10 years ago, it starts looking a whole lot better.

Honestly, pick any statistic you want?  Literacy rate, life expectancy, infant mortality, access to clean water, whatever.  Everything is better now than it was when they had "an official government".  That doesn't mean its good, it still sucks total ass, but under the anarchy boogyman, they have actually seen a slight improvement in just about everything.

I'm not arguing in favor of anarchy or anything, but when goons try and paint it as like the worst possible society one could ever live in, they are just being silly. 

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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2014, 06:51:22 PM »
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Aren't you conflating internet libertarianism with anarchy a little bit? The Randbot stereotype isn't the same thing as the libertarian who favors constitutionally limited government. Freemen are more like the former - the ones that want to just go inna woods with their sovereign citizen buddies to form the core of the Free Republic of Carl's militia or whatever.

I was taking care not to place all Libertarians at the lunatic end of the spectrum. But one part of the Libertarian rainbow does contain arachnid-capitalist randbots, even if they're cunts.

Internet/fedora/dipshit Libertarians do share some shakier ideas with Freemanism - heroic individuals with god give\n platonic freedom and are constrained by a society they never signed up for, etc. Fremen have just added magical thinking, upped the cult factor, and usually have a shitload of debt they'd like to get out of.

You seem to agree that the two overlap or have a fair bit in common, which was all I was saying above.

Whether the overlapping beliefs are core Libertarian values might depend on whether you (or your idea of real Libertarians) think that government is fundamentally illegitimate, or that it needs to be heavily checked and regulated.

Anyone who uses the word "fedora" (like you) either on the internet or IRL in a derogatory way should do the world a favor and fucking kill themselves.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 06:55:57 PM by Florida STD »

Hogbox

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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2014, 07:01:24 PM »
+1
Fucksake, I was referring to Polonium's idea of fake Libertarians being fedora wearers.

Didn't mean to trigger you.
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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2014, 07:11:43 PM »
+5
Damn, Flo, don't get your fedora in a twist.
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Transaction

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Re: "Freemen" are insane.
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2014, 07:29:26 PM »
+1
We have Freemen in our country, but they're usually indigenous Maori who claim that they're not party to the Treaty signed between the British Crown and the Maori ruling Chiefs in 1840 and therefore not obligated to follow laws and regulations established by the Government of New Zealand.

They're regarded as a lunatic fringe. Most of the people here understand and accept the concept of the social contract.
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