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Author Topic: Gibbis> Are the mentally disabled less worthy of living?  (Read 2728 times)

woulduliketonomoar

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Gibbis> Are the mentally disabled less worthy of living?
« on: August 20, 2012, 01:08:46 AM »
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http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3502266

ITT - goons argue that all life is "precious" and that pedos, the mentally handicapped and the married man with 4 kids who needs to support his family are all EXACTLY THE SAME in terms of worth to society.

Quote
Medical debate: Should autism block a man from getting a heart transplant?

Twenty-three-year-old Paul Corby has a bad heart and a flawed mind.

The question before doctors now is whether his mental problems - he has a form of autism - are severe enough to make him a bad candidate for a heart transplant.

Doctors at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania have said they are...

Corby said her son - who is diagnosed with Pervasive Developmental Disorder Not Otherwise Specified - is high functioning and spends his days playing video games and writing the sequel to his pre-teen, self-published novel, Isaac the Runner. He carried his ever-present Princess Peach doll with him to his transplant evaluation. He takes medicine for an unspecified mood disorder, his mother said. He has shouted loudly enough that police have been called "three or four times" to the family's home.

In cases of serious psychiatric or cognitive problems, doctors want to know that patients have enough support from family members to manage their medications. Doctors don't want to have to sedate patients to perform minor procedures. To make the best use of organs, patients must be willing participants in rehabilitation.

Karen Corby said her son is already on 19 medications, most for his heart condition. Although he always has someone with him, he takes the medicines by himself. He struggles with anxiety and has night terrors. He's a loner. He has not been diagnosed with specific mood disorder, she said, but takes a mood stabilizer. He's been more depressed and upset since Penn said no.

 He said he worries about going out sometimes. "I feel like I might get nervous, and I might act out in public." Asked how he acts out, he said, "I push people. I break things." His mother said medication helps with that.

Let the self-righteous indignation commence!

Quote from: dee eight" post="406671255
If that morally disabled fuckrat Cheney can get a new heart, this guy should get two.

Quote from: Xaiter" post="406671353
And this (the Cheney argument), I believe, is the most solid argument for why it's really bad to try and determine if a person deserves to live.  Cheney is literally a geriatric war criminal who would be arrested if he left the United States, yet he would qualify under virtually any sane criteria you could craft.

Quote from: Nckdictator" post="406671789
All life is precious , the mentally disabled maybe even more so, in this case they should be treated as everyone else, simple.

Quote from: Maximusi" post="406672253
Whoever gets on the list first, gets a heart. Age and mental disability shouldn't have a factor in the deciding process, unless their age would make it unlikely that they would survive the surgery.

Quote from: Rhonyn Peacemaker" post="406673230
Limitations due to mental conditions that impair higher reasoning is pragmatic and rational. The idea that a mentally disabled person should receive superior treatment is laughable and it is a shame that education throws money away on making the mentally impaired semi-functional.

Scare resources means tough choices. If you will never be on the same playing field because you have an extra chromosome here or there means you probably shouldn't attempt to rack up to everyone else. The moment its star trek times, sure, use whatever resources you want trying to have the mentally impaired be productive.
Get the fuck out of here with that rational thought.

Quote from: melon cat" post="406673692
Who has the right to say that a person with autism will contribute less to society than a person without it? I've known several people who are healthy, but contribute jackshit to society. Hell, our company employs two people with autism.  And they work twice as hard than several of the constantly-complaining, self-entitled "healthy" people who do the same job.

So true.
Really.  Really?



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Re: Gibbis> Are the mentally disabled less worthy of living?
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2012, 05:46:37 AM »
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I worked in a bank's check processing center in undergrad. They had a true autistic there who could process twice as fast as anyone else. Actually a little more than twice as fast as the next fastest processor who was a concert pianist. But this freak was totally gone. I have no clue how they trained him because he never said a single word. It was a freak show, like he was a machine that could eat and moan and fidget but he was a monster on that processor.

Goons, however, cannot be taught anything and so are worthless. Let them all starve along with anyone else who could work but won't.
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Harry D Greek

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Re: Gibbis> Are the mentally disabled less worthy of living?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2012, 05:56:59 PM »
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There should be a eugenics program aimed solely at wiping out the worst of the GBS posters' genes from existence (who am I kidding, those people have a better chance of hitting the lottery than of hitting some ass, so we don't have to worry about them reproducing) .
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Re: Gibbis> Are the mentally disabled less worthy of living?
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2012, 12:55:14 AM »
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Doritos got a month's ban for the crime of wicked burns.

Hey look, someone with an ounce of sense and actual understanding of the system appears!

Quote from: Low Carb Bread
Having spent some time training at a few transplant centers, controversial decisions like this are made all the time. Many people come out saying "give the kid a heart" but ultimately even if he goes on the list he may die before getting one anyway. We have to make tough decisions like - you ruined your liver from drugs or alcohol, so you're low priority for transplant. Or, similarly, you're 70+ years old so are low priority for any transplant (or perhaps not even eligible at many centers).

I have seen the effects of steroids and they range from mild mood swings to frank psychosis. It is not unreasonable to suspect that someone with baseline mood problems will do poorly. Generally even if someone is a good transplant candidate they will usually be required to go to some form of counseling in order to ensure that the person is mentally prepared for surgery and willing to comply with long term therapy. In practice this often restricts the mentally retarded from being part of the process because you cannot guarantee longterm success - if the patient himself is not fully capable of taking the medications he will need post-op, then he is to depend on family members who may not be able to manage these medication regimens in the future due to their own problems.

Only once have I seen a mentally retarded person get a transplant. In his case he had an auto immune disorder for which he had stopped taking his medications (reasons unclear), leading to severe and irreparable damage. Ultimately on an urgent basis he received a transplant as he would have died otherwise. I'm not sure we did the right thing. What we often forget is that for every organ we transplant, one other person lower on the transplant list will die.

Life with a transplanted organ isn't always great either. Rarely will someone truly be a "perfect match," and even then you will not live forever. A significant portion of the people undergoing a heart (or any major organ transplant: lung, liver etc) will die during surgery, or in the first 30 days / 1 year post-op. Most (up to 90%) will survive that period but we see major attrition at the 5 and 10 year marks, as the medications to prevent rejection begin to take their toll, and as the organ itself becomes damaged over time. Average lifespan of a transplant is about 10 to 15 years so if this guy is one of the lucky recipients to break 20 years, who can reliably take care of him at that point?

I don't think it's fair to post the question as "are the mentally disabled less worthy of living?" Organ transplant is far outside the realm of ordinary human experience. It's not everyday that we crack open someone's chest, hook them up to a bypass machine, and replace his heart. At my hospital they recently had to deny 2 ICU admissions to families who were requesting it because the patients were both elderly, demented and most likely will die sooner or later regardless of what measures are taken. Families are not always pleased but sometimes decisions like these need to be made. 

Uh-oh. Can't be making sense on the smartest forums on the internet  :lolno:

Here comes Retro Access with 888 words of reply for the above post

Quote
Jesus loving Christ I hate this planet.

What is the cutoff you'd consider as "mentally retarded?" I was never taken remotely seriously by doctors because I have brain damage from a cyst in my brain. They'd basically decide all by themselves I was retarded. I am not. They recommended to my parents when I was 16 that I be pulled out of college and put on disability benefits for life. How likely would I be to be refused for a loving transplant? I had to build my own business from the ground up to have one iota of a chance to prove to people I was capable of anything, and even then it took a lot of money (went to expensive private doctors, I'm British) opting out of having my medical records shared (they are loving horrendous, I'd get treated like a child if I went to any basic checkup for anything.)

I am so angry right now. So angry. Can I speak on behalf of the mentally disabled here? I spent enough time caring for them, I was chosen as an advocate worker for a mental health charity in the UK. I bawled my loving eyes out at that Youtube video of the autistic girl. I looked after a guy as autistic as that, who had never been given a chance, never been taught to do a loving thing. Who knows whether he could have been able to express his thoughts, if he'd ever got the training.

We are the last loving minority who will ever enjoy equality. We have no loving hope of it.

In this thread, we are talking about a man who is able to read and write (though this part should not matter) and just because he lashes out in frustration (can you imagine being literally unable to express yourself properly) we decide "Oh he isn't worthy of saving."

It is beyond simple to get most people with mental disabilities to take their meds. Yes, there are group homes for them. Yes, this exists in the USA.

I am beyond concerned about this, because I immigrated to the USA with my American husband and they have all my med history, and it took a battle in itself to get to this country.

So if I collapse from a heart attack, am I up poo poo creek? Not worthy enough?

Part of the problem is you'll go off peoples' medical history, and in the case of many they'll be under the care of somebody else who may not be 100% right in the head.

My physical brain damage, which I believe I mostly compensate for is compounded by 20 years under the care of a hypochondriac mother who'd rush to a child psych and exaggerate every tiny thing I did.

I nearly got put in a home for mentally disabled children as a child. Based on what my mother reported. Yet here I am typing this to you, from the USA, having moved here on my own merits and achievements.

Can you honestly 100% understand the workings of the brain?

Who would have thought the autistic girl in the Youtube video would be able to express herself so eloquently? I wouldn't have thought it even, because I've seen that level of autism and it seems utterly unpenetrable.

 :tuss: :tuss: :tuss: :tuss: :tuss: :tuss: :tuss: :tuss: :tuss: :tuss:

sye

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Re: Gibbis> Are the mentally disabled less worthy of living?
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2012, 10:45:06 AM »
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i have some mental issues, disorders, problems, whatever, and at least 350/365 days out of the year i'm just like a normal person. 365/365 for most of the years before my disorder hit. i am glad and thankful that physically i'm healthy and will probably never need a heart transplant

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Re: Gibbis> Are the mentally disabled less worthy of living?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2012, 10:53:24 AM »
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i have some mental issues, disorders, problems, whatever, and at least 350/365 days out of the year i'm just like a normal person. 365/365 for most of the years before my disorder hit. i am glad and thankful that physically i'm healthy and will probably never need a heart transplant
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Re: Gibbis> Are the mentally disabled less worthy of living?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2012, 01:53:55 PM »
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Welcome to the 1 Post Counts who joined us in this thread.  Havent seen growth like this for a long while.  And that is saying something since this growth is huge at like 6 people.
 :myecred:

Harry D Greek

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Re: Gibbis> Are the mentally disabled less worthy of living?
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2012, 05:39:34 PM »
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Thanks, hopefully goons will just keep becoming more extreme and retarded as time gos on so there will be more to post about.
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This was posted on the page before, but I was only able to catch up on this thread now. I'd like to point out that not all lesbian relationships have two vaginas, and it really sucks as a queer trans woman to hear this sort of generalization all the time.

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Procrustes

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Re: Gibbis> Are the mentally disabled less worthy of living?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2012, 05:43:57 PM »
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i have some mental issues, disorders, problems, whatever, and at least 350/365 days out of the year i'm just like a normal person. 365/365 for most of the years before my disorder hit. i am glad and thankful that physically i'm healthy and will probably never need a heart transplant

What happens the 15/365 that you're not a normal person?

Serious question here.

On topic: How many fucking meds is the sperglord in the OP on now?  19?  Execute him. 

sye

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Re: Gibbis> Are the mentally disabled less worthy of living?
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2012, 10:20:28 AM »
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i have some mental issues, disorders, problems, whatever, and at least 350/365 days out of the year i'm just like a normal person. 365/365 for most of the years before my disorder hit. i am glad and thankful that physically i'm healthy and will probably never need a heart transplant

What happens the 15/365 that you're not a normal person?

Serious question here.

On topic: How many fucking meds is the sperglord in the OP on now?  19?  Execute him.
i get psychotic, paranoid, hear voices, have panic attacks, occasionally try to commit suicide, etc. sometimes i go to the hospital but i try not to go if i don't have to. the last time i went to the hospital was last year and i've had to go to the hospital once or twice each year for the last three years. i'm hoping that i don't have to go to the hospital this year. i'm currently on one medication and it makes me a bit nauseous when i swallow it, but it's better than some medications i've been prescribed previously. abilify gave me serotonin syndrome and parkinson's like symptoms. it was hard to walk, talk, and eat. i did those things slower than i did them previously, and i walked with a limp that i've seen in other people who were no doubt taking antipsychotics or some kind of meds. i'm hoping to get off my medication soon, but i probably will get off it once i finish college because the doctor says "don't rock the boat".

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Re: Gibbis> Are the mentally disabled less worthy of living?
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2012, 10:49:33 AM »
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i have some mental issues, disorders, problems, whatever, and at least 350/365 days out of the year i'm just like a normal person. 365/365 for most of the years before my disorder hit. i am glad and thankful that physically i'm healthy and will probably never need a heart transplant

What happens the 15/365 that you're not a normal person?

Serious question here.

On topic: How many fucking meds is the sperglord in the OP on now?  19?  Execute him.
i get psychotic, paranoid, hear voices, have panic attacks, occasionally try to commit suicide, etc. sometimes i go to the hospital but i try not to go if i don't have to. the last time i went to the hospital was last year and i've had to go to the hospital once or twice each year for the last three years. i'm hoping that i don't have to go to the hospital this year. i'm currently on one medication and it makes me a bit nauseous when i swallow it, but it's better than some medications i've been prescribed previously. abilify gave me serotonin syndrome and parkinson's like symptoms. it was hard to walk, talk, and eat. i did those things slower than i did them previously, and i walked with a limp that i've seen in other people who were no doubt taking antipsychotics or some kind of meds. i'm hoping to get off my medication soon, but i probably will get off it once i finish college because the doctor says "don't rock the boat".


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Re: Gibbis> Are the mentally disabled less worthy of living?
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2012, 01:23:50 PM »
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How do you argue that all life is precious when it comes to retards and yet support abortion (most of them do since they banned all the ones that don't)? You know who is getting aborted, right?



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Re: Gibbis> Are the mentally disabled less worthy of living?
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2012, 10:27:59 PM »
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i have some mental issues, disorders, problems, whatever, and at least 350/365 days out of the year i'm just like a normal person. 365/365 for most of the years before my disorder hit. i am glad and thankful that physically i'm healthy and will probably never need a heart transplant

What happens the 15/365 that you're not a normal person?

Serious question here.

On topic: How many fucking meds is the sperglord in the OP on now?  19?  Execute him.
i get psychotic, paranoid, hear voices, have panic attacks, occasionally try to commit suicide, etc. sometimes i go to the hospital but i try not to go if i don't have to. the last time i went to the hospital was last year and i've had to go to the hospital once or twice each year for the last three years. i'm hoping that i don't have to go to the hospital this year. i'm currently on one medication and it makes me a bit nauseous when i swallow it, but it's better than some medications i've been prescribed previously. abilify gave me serotonin syndrome and parkinson's like symptoms. it was hard to walk, talk, and eat. i did those things slower than i did them previously, and i walked with a limp that i've seen in other people who were no doubt taking antipsychotics or some kind of meds. i'm hoping to get off my medication soon, but i probably will get off it once i finish college because the doctor says "don't rock the boat".

Jesus Christ, dude.

 You've obviously got serious issues, guy. Congrats on not acting like a total faggot or claiming eternal victim hood over them, though. I think that definitely works in your favor.

I sincerely hope the treatment you're getting is successful, man.

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Re: Gibbis> Are the mentally disabled less worthy of living?
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2012, 02:47:18 AM »
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How do you argue that all life is precious when it comes to retards and yet support abortion (most of them do since they banned all the ones that don't)? You know who is getting aborted, right?

Feelings are the most important thing in the world, and unborn babies don't have feelings.

Bet you didn't think of that you bigot conservative. Even whales and shit have feelings and they're just dumb fish. A fetus doesn't have feelings, it's pretty much inhuman.