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Author Topic: This is why you can't have nice things  (Read 5086 times)

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This is why you can't have nice things
« on: January 28, 2018, 07:20:09 AM »
+25
Have you ever wondered what the quality of life would be like in Western countries if we didn't have to spend so much on "dem programz"?

In this thread we discuss this very question.

First of all, let's look at energy. Specifically, fusion energy or rather the conspicuous lack of it. As you know, we as a species use a lot of energy. Most of our electricity comes from non-renewable sources like coal and gas, which are not very efficient and can be quite damaging to the environment (not CO2 as such but mountains of radioactive coal ash). We have a fair number of nuclear fission plans, but most of them are old: very few new ones are being built. They are better than burning coal but hugely expensive and they produce dangerous radioactive waste. If you think solar panels and wind farms are going to save us, you are very mistaken.

So what is the solution to all Earth's energy problems? Fusion energy. The same process that takes place in the Sun and all the stars in the Universe. Hydrogen fuses together to produce helium and other heavier elements and releases massive amounts of energy in the process. We can't really even dream about fusing pure hydrogen so most experimental reactors are looking to fuse heavier versions of hydrogen like deuterium and tritium. Fusion energy is *very* tricky. You have extremely high temperatures of plasma (hundreds of millions of degrees, a few billion degrees in some cases). But.. we don't really have an alternative, we have to get fusion working. Coal, gas and oil will run out eventually. Solar, wind and hydro together can provide only a fraction of the energy needed. Nuclear fission plants are expensive and there isn't that much fuel for them in the ground.

Hydrogen, on the other hand, is the most common element in the Universe and deuterium can be found in sea water all over the world.

So let's take Germany for example. They have a very interesting experimental reactor, a type called stellarator. Wendelstein 7-X: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendelstein_7-X
It's been under construction for 18 years and the money spent by most estimates is around 1.2 billion dollars. Now, that sounds like a lot of money, doesn't it?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-puts-migration-related-costs-at-over-86-billion-over-next-four-years-1467392402

Quote
The German finance ministry expects to spend €77.6 billion ($86.2 billion) over the next four years feeding, housing and training refugees as well as helping their home countries to stem the flow, according to updated budget estimates for the period from 2017 to 2020. Adding budgeted costs for the current year would bring the total to €93.6 billion between by 2020.

In case you couldn't quite grasp the meaning of that paragraph, let me rephrase it in this way: Germany is spending 1.2 billion over two decades for a potential solution to all of humanity's energy problems, while spending north of 100 billion in just four years importing people who can't read and write in their own language, let alone someone else's.

OK, let's take a look at leader of the free world: The United States of America.

You know that country that took the humans to the Moon? Speaking of that, did you know that USA doesn't currently have a manned vehicle that is capable of taking astronauts to orbit and the International Space Station? Because it cancelled the previous Constellation project and doesn't seem to find the money for the Orion project to accelerate development and testing. The Orion Project has received just 12 billion of funding between 2005-2016 and the first manned test flights are not expected until 2021-2022. So the great United States has to rely on an ancient Russian vehicle called Sojuz to get their astronauts into orbit. Ouch.

Incidentally, to change the subject completely, did you know that USA spends around 30 billion every year on Section 8 housing, which has been by every conceivable metric you could think of, a MASSIVE FAILURE and has arguably greated more problems than it has solved? It's funny that USA took once pride in leading the space race with putting the man on the moon, the Space Shuttle program, taking the first vessels into Jupiter and Saturn and then the interstellar space (Voyager program), and now you are reduced to begging for a spot on an ancient Russian rocket while spending tens of billions a year for a housing subsidy program that creates more problems than it solves.

So where are our priorities as the leaders of the human civilization? We have thrown trillions at all sorts of welfare programs and trillions into fighting {{{someone else's}}} wars in the Middle-East. Why can't we seem to find a few hundred billions to solve all our energy problems and to finally send astronauts to Mars?
But I do often point out that I write both science fiction and fantasy. It’s just that the science fiction is usually titled ‘technical proposal’ and the fantasy is titled ‘budget proposal.’

- Jordin Kare

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2018, 12:02:14 PM »
+27
At a more micro level, the costs that trickle down to individuals in day to day life (in the US at least) is called the Nigger Tax:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASE35lQSaEg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASE35lQSaEg</a>

Dealing with a bloated government bureaucracy staffed by Rachel Jeantels? That's the Nigger Tax.
Talking to a corner store teller through a speaker because he's sitting behind bullet proof glass? That's the Nigger Tax.
You kid's school no longer offers art or music, but it has ten Spanish-language classrooms? That's the Nigger Tax.
You live in the suburbs and have to get up early to commute to work in the city? That's the Nigger Tax.
Can't enjoy an NFL game on Sunday any more? That's the Nigger Tax.
Quote from: George Lincoln Rockwell
The Conservatives have a slogan which I think is despicable and defeatist: "It's better to be dead than red." And the Commies and Liberals have a slogan which is even worse, it's treason, they say: "It's better to be red than dead." We say this: "You don't have to be Red and you don't have to be Dead. Not dead. Not Red. Dead Reds"


kornbeef

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2018, 12:55:03 PM »
+4
So what is the solution to all Earth's energy problems? Fusion energy.
Thorium fission breeder reactors.  I don't think we'll have a controlled fusion reactor in my lifetime, much less a profitable one.

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2018, 01:24:02 PM »
+8
So what is the solution to all Earth's energy problems? Fusion energy.
Thorium fission breeder reactors.  I don't think we'll have a controlled fusion reactor in my lifetime, much less a profitable one.

It's because we have sunk so much money and time into projects like ITER which are a massive bureaucracy. It's more of a job security thing for physicists and engineers rather an actual attempt at cracking fusion. Many people who vouched for huge tokamaks are now saying it was a mistake and they will probably never work. ITER certainly wont generate a watt of electricity (it will not have steam turbines).

There are some very exciting small companies trying various approaches with private funding. Hydrogen-boron fusion seems to be the most tantalizing at the moment, because it produces absolutely no radiation and the energy can be converted straight into electricity, without bigass steam turbine fuckery. It could also be used for space propulsion drives, because the alpha particles can be magnetically directed and used for thrust.

For example: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/12/171213104941.htm
But I do often point out that I write both science fiction and fantasy. It’s just that the science fiction is usually titled ‘technical proposal’ and the fantasy is titled ‘budget proposal.’

- Jordin Kare

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2018, 01:52:58 PM »
+7
I’m not a fan of govt social programs outside of disability and short term unemployment pay but it needs to be strictly and rigorously regulated and means tested but lol at the idea that without nuggets there’d be fusion reactors or that you can just throw money at science to get results faster.

May as well say that without social programs we’d have pet dragons and the water fountains would dispense soda and uh two lunch breaks for all seniors SAN DIEMUS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!!!!

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2018, 02:12:03 PM »
+9
The nigger tax is being paid heavy by school districts. And that effects your children.
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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2018, 02:31:52 PM »
+5
This is a great thread idea, dude. People should be equipped with this knowledge, probably the best kind of arguments for getting people to see our side of things.

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2018, 02:36:07 PM »
+6
I’m not a fan of govt social programs outside of disability and short term unemployment pay but it needs to be strictly and rigorously regulated and means tested but lol at the idea that without nuggets there’d be fusion reactors or that you can just throw money at science to get results faster.

May as well say that without social programs we’d have pet dragons and the water fountains would dispense soda and uh two lunch breaks for all seniors SAN DIEMUS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!!!!

You’re right it is a stretch, but the point definitely holds about all the wasted opportunities when that money gets diverted into monkeyshine slush funds

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2018, 02:38:39 PM »
+7
I’m not a fan of govt social programs outside of disability and short term unemployment pay but it needs to be strictly and rigorously regulated and means tested but lol at the idea that without nuggets there’d be fusion reactors or that you can just throw money at science to get results faster.

May as well say that without social programs we’d have pet dragons and the water fountains would dispense soda and uh two lunch breaks for all seniors SAN DIEMUS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!!!!

I'm sorry, but this makes perfect sense. More money = better technology. We're past the industrial revolution where most of the devices that changed our society were rather simple mechanical ones and where we could find fuel for the internal combustion engine by simply digging a 1 metre hole in the ground. These times are past and never coming back.

I'm absolutely, positively certain that if you would pick 3 of the most promising fusion projects and gave them a check for 50 billion a year you would have working, relatively compact fusion power plant in 5 years. It hasn't been done yet because coal, gas and oil are still cheap and abundant.
But I do often point out that I write both science fiction and fantasy. It’s just that the science fiction is usually titled ‘technical proposal’ and the fantasy is titled ‘budget proposal.’

- Jordin Kare

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2018, 03:35:26 PM »
+9
So what is the solution to all Earth's energy problems? Fusion energy.
Thorium fission breeder reactors.  I don't think we'll have a controlled fusion reactor in my lifetime, much less a profitable one.
I really don't understand why we aren't putting all the money into these. The fuel is plentiful (and largely considered a useless byproduct of mining for stuff like uranium), it doesn't produce the dangerous transuranics like plutonium, it's damn near impossible to weaponize, the reactors can't melt down, and it won't produce CO2 so the greens will have to find something else to complain about.

Fusion is still vaporware.

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2018, 03:47:33 PM »
+7
Incidentally, to change the subject completely, did you know that USA spends around 30 billion every year on Section 8 housing, which has been by every conceivable metric you could think of, a MASSIVE FAILURE and has arguably greated more problems than it has solved? It's funny that USA took once pride in leading the space race with putting the man on the moon, the Space Shuttle program, taking the first vessels into Jupiter and Saturn and then the interstellar space (Voyager program), and now you are reduced to begging for a spot on an ancient Russian rocket while spending tens of billions a year for a housing subsidy program that creates more problems than it solves.

So where are our priorities as the leaders of the human civilization? We have thrown trillions at all sorts of welfare programs and trillions into fighting {{{someone else's}}} wars in the Middle-East. Why can't we seem to find a few hundred billions to solve all our energy problems and to finally send astronauts to Mars?

We need to do this lest we be attacked with more vicious and cutting poetry like this

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtBy_ppG4hY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtBy_ppG4hY</a>
I have a pet conspiracy theory about Lil Yachty. The Jews made him famous to put all the marginally talented blacks like Jay-Z and whomever on notice that their fame and fortune has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with any talent they might have. Jewish producers can take the most retarded nigger they can find, a guy so dumb he can't even write his own name, hook him up to autotone, and make him a star. They don't need Jay-Z; Jay-Z needs them.

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2018, 04:27:48 PM »
+2
I’m not a fan of govt social programs outside of disability and short term unemployment pay but it needs to be strictly and rigorously regulated and means tested but lol at the idea that without nuggets there’d be fusion reactors or that you can just throw money at science to get results faster.

May as well say that without social programs we’d have pet dragons and the water fountains would dispense soda and uh two lunch breaks for all seniors SAN DIEMUS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!!!!

I'm sorry, but this makes perfect sense. More money = better technology. We're past the industrial revolution where most of the devices that changed our society were rather simple mechanical ones and where we could find fuel for the internal combustion engine by simply digging a 1 metre hole in the ground. These times are past and never coming back.

I'm absolutely, positively certain that if you would pick 3 of the most promising fusion projects and gave them a check for 50 billion a year you would have working, relatively compact fusion power plant in 5 years. It hasn't been done yet because coal, gas and oil are still cheap and abundant.

It hasn’t been done yet because it’s not physically possible. You may as well substitute fire breathing dragons for fusion while you’re busy fantasizing.

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2018, 05:05:12 PM »
+7
It hasn’t been done yet because it’s not physically possible. You may as well substitute fire breathing dragons for fusion while you’re busy fantasizing.

What is the basis for your claim? Gut feeling?
But I do often point out that I write both science fiction and fantasy. It’s just that the science fiction is usually titled ‘technical proposal’ and the fantasy is titled ‘budget proposal.’

- Jordin Kare

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2018, 05:28:00 PM »
+8
If you could push a technology to success through funding alone, solar would be massively successful.  Having too little funding on a good project will fuck it thoroughly.
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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2018, 06:01:34 PM »
+1
What is the basis for your claim?

All of recorded history.

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2018, 07:16:05 PM »
+3
If you could push a technology to success through funding alone, solar would be massively successful.  Having too little funding on a good project will fuck it thoroughly.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure you can make a foot by foot solar panel to test out your energy conversion technologies on them, nuclear power plants are a little more expensive.

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2018, 07:23:26 PM »
+9
My uncle who works at NintendoFusion Energies Ltd. told me that this shit is really hard, okay?



Seriously - the engineering side of building a working fusion reactor is hard as hell and the materials necessary to make this work may not be available for decades. It's the same idea as a space elevator. The concept is simple - big weight acting as a pendulum out in low earth orbit, giant tether locked to the ground that acts as the elevator string. Run equipment up into orbit using traction on the string instead of rocket fuel.

Conceptually easy, totally out of range of reality right now because we don't have any materials that can withstand the forces involved.

Throwing money at a concept doesn't magically eliminate barriers. We've dumped billions into cancer research and while we have a ton of new procedures and drugs to help, we haven't eliminated it as a problem.

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2018, 07:35:14 PM »
+11
So I know a guy whose job is actually building nuclear reactors.  I asked him why we don't have thorium fission breeder reactors yet. This was his reply:

Quote
The cost of R&D puts it into "cost prohibitive" territory. Money for nuclear R&D is being spent elsewhere.

R&D wasn't actively pursued back in the day because you can't make bombs from the by-products of a thorium reactor.

So there is one person who works in the industry thinks that a lack of research funds is at least part of problem.
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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2018, 07:38:55 PM »
+4
So I know a guy whose job is actually building nuclear reactors.  I asked him why we don't have thorium fission breeder reactors yet. This was his reply:

Quote
The cost of R&D puts it into "cost prohibitive" territory. Money for nuclear R&D is being spent elsewhere.

R&D wasn't actively pursued back in the day because you can't make bombs from the by-products of a thorium reactor.

So there is one person who works in the industry thinks that a lack of research funds is at least part of problem.
That sounds similar to what I've heard. But it's an issue that can be solved by spending money, instead of hoping a miraculous breakthrough comes along for fusion.

kornbeef

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2018, 08:11:34 PM »
+5
I'm absolutely, positively certain that if you would pick 3 of the most promising fusion projects and gave them a check for 50 billion a year you would have working, relatively compact fusion power plant in 5 years. It hasn't been done yet because coal, gas and oil are still cheap and abundant.
Quote
The cost of R&D puts it into "cost prohibitive" territory. Money for nuclear R&D is being spent elsewhere.

R&D wasn't actively pursued back in the day because you can't make bombs from the by-products of a thorium reactor.

So there is one person who works in the industry thinks that a lack of research funds is at least part of problem.
it's almost as if people measure the estimated cost and potential benefits of a technology compared to current costs, and make economic decisions based on the profitability of those decisions.

there's a word for this: u r gay lol

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2018, 08:13:40 PM »
+9
At a more micro level, the costs that trickle down to individuals in day to day life (in the US at least) is called the Nigger Tax:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASE35lQSaEg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASE35lQSaEg</a>

Dealing with a bloated government bureaucracy staffed by Rachel Jeantels? That's the Nigger Tax.
Talking to a corner store teller through a speaker because he's sitting behind bullet proof glass? That's the Nigger Tax.
You kid's school no longer offers art or music, but it has ten Spanish-language classrooms? That's the Nigger Tax.
You live in the suburbs and have to get up early to commute to work in the city? That's the Nigger Tax.
Can't enjoy an NFL game on Sunday any more? That's the Nigger Tax.

You forgot movie theaters

I’m not a fan of govt social programs outside of disability and short term unemployment pay but it needs to be strictly and rigorously regulated and means tested but lol at the idea that without nuggets there’d be fusion reactors or that you can just throw money at science to get results faster.

May as well say that without social programs we’d have pet dragons and the water fountains would dispense soda and uh two lunch breaks for all seniors SAN DIEMUS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!!!!

 :facepalm:

The entire point is that we'd have far more money to spend elsewhere (tax cuts, r&d, etc.) without having to pay for shaycrawn and dantele.  Just hypothetically, we could increase NASA's budget by 150% without section 8 housing.

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2018, 08:27:09 PM »
+17
We went from this:



to this:



in about 60 years.  Nobody thought that was possible until it was done.  Not surprised that a worthless beaner can't comprehend technological advancement.  That's why our people landed on the moon and the taconigger's people will mow our lawns while we're out in space.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 08:32:36 PM by Dem Wypipo »

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2018, 08:38:58 PM »
+16
we wan fro dis:



to dis:



b4 yt colon-ized us

we wuz afronauts n sheeit

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2018, 12:40:00 AM »
+1
We went from this:



to this:



in about 60 years.  Nobody thought that was possible until it was done.  Not surprised that a worthless beaner can't comprehend technological advancement.  That's why our people landed on the moon and the taconigger's people will mow our lawns while we're out in space.

I think you'll find there are no lawns in space.

:negress:

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Re: This is why you can't have nice things
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2018, 01:17:11 AM »
+14
One thing you always hear the green energy people trot out is that existing energy suppliers fear these new technologies coming in and stealing their profits. This sounds wrong to me, if anything major energy companies would be at the forefront of investing in and using these technologies. It doesn’t matter if it raises profit margins or not. If it does, then great that’s incentive. If it doesn’t, someone’s still gonna undercut you using it unless you adjust to the new market. I suspect these canards get trotted out because the reality is most green energy solutions viewed technically are not promising, so energy companies logically ignore them and their proponents need some other way to generate hype so it becomes “those evil corps wanna keep this tech hidden use ur taxes to fund it so we can fight evil”.

Am I off the mark? Do the existing institutions actively work to stifle innovation?