;

Author Topic: Universal Healthcare in America would cost an additional $32.6 trillion/decade  (Read 1002 times)

POST FRANK

  • Cishet White Male
  • Cosmonauts
  • *
  • Posts: 1767
  • Awards Ambien posting Fucked a lesbian Drinkin' and Postin' Jesuit
    • Awards
Quote
Sen. Bernie Sanders' "Medicare for all" plan would increase government health care spending by $32.6 trillion over 10 years, according to a study by a university-based libertarian policy center.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/study-medicare-bill-estimated-326-trillion-56906940

We already spend $1-1.5 trillion per year on Medicare & Medicaid.  Under Bernie's plan that would increase to $4,260,000,000,000 per year.

Assuming all 122,000,000 Americans that pay federal income tax also pay FICA tax, their annual federal taxes would increase by $34,918.0328 $26,721.31

That is, unless you pay more than $2900 $2,226 per month for health insurance and your deductibles (which should be everybody in the country), you're better off as we are now.

:obammy: :obammy: :obammy: :obammy: :obammy: :obammy:

Of course, this ignores the fact that Medicare only works because it passes the main burden onto the insurers, who in turn pass that burden onto insureds.  So, presumably, the actual cost would be significantly higher than that $35k.

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 11:32:50 AM by POST FRANK »

Call Me CisMale

  • Unperson
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
  • better dead than red
  • Awards Better dead than red
    • Awards
but muh norway

a torrent of piss

  • 5000 Posters Club
  • Grand Inquisitors
  • *
  • Posts: 7237
  • Pineapple and Ham
  • Awards You're Great...No, YOU'RE Great!
    • Awards
Norweigan healthcare is only available to true norweigans, if you immigrated you're shit out of luck and will never be qualified.

Essentially everything is structured around a smaller demographic who's growth can be more reliably checked. they have no unrestrained border crossings and have also set up entire industries to fund the social programs and also ensure that working people put into the system and that on the other end it's also working people receiving the benefits.

Backpfeifengesicht

  • 5000 Posters Club
  • *
  • Posts: 7370
  • Awards You're Great...No, YOU'RE Great! Deplorables Anonymous For Dixie's land we'll take our stand! Methodist Better dead than red cold, dead hands Texan Goon or Ex-Goon
    • Awards
Norweigan healthcare is only available to true norweigans, if you immigrated you're shit out of luck and will never be qualified.

Essentially everything is structured around a smaller demographic who's growth can be more reliably checked. they have no unrestrained border crossings and have also set up entire industries to fund the social programs and also ensure that working people put into the system and that on the other end it's also working people receiving the benefits.

But anybody who comes here is automatically a True American. :unparsons:
Quote from: George Lincoln Rockwell
The Conservatives have a slogan which I think is despicable and defeatist: "It's better to be dead than red." And the Commies and Liberals have a slogan which is even worse, it's treason, they say: "It's better to be red than dead." We say this: "You don't have to be Red and you don't have to be Dead. Not dead. Not Red. Dead Reds"


unprivsplain

  • Cishet White Male
  • ******
  • Posts: 3401
    • Awards
I don't really believe that. Medicare right now covers ~48 million, and covers people over 65. As in, by far the costliest demographic. Also

Quote
But other provisions would tend to drive up spending, including coverage for nearly 30 million uninsured people, no deductibles and copays, and improved benefits, including dental, vision and hearing.

Seems like an unneeded assumptions. Mainly the no deductibles, no copays, and lumping dental and vision with it.

Postmortem Mixtape

  • Unperson
  • *****
  • Posts: 821
  • Awards Deplorables Drinkin' and Postin' cold, dead hands Better dead than red KURWA The Gentry Scrooge United Statesian old Libertarian
    • Awards
Don't you mean "unless you pay more than $2,900/month for health insurance and deductibles"?

At an extra $35,000/year in taxes I might as well not even go to work. Fuck taking about two-thirds of my gross so I can finance health care for fucking dindus, wetbacks and manchildren still living in mommy's basement.

Procrustes

  • Cishet White Male
  • ******
  • Posts: 4564
  • Awards Quieres comprar naranjas?
    • Awards
$35k/yr in tax increase so filthy poors can prolong their miserable existences a few more days or years lmao fuck them and their commie bullshit

InsideOutside

  • Cishet White Male
  • ******
  • Posts: 2252
    • Awards
I wonder how much we could knock off that tab if we refused to consider fibromyalgia, autism and transgender conversion therapy covered?

 :adam:

Nah Im A White Guy

  • Cishet White Male
  • ******
  • Posts: 1429
  • アメリカを再び偉大にしよう
  • Awards Anonymous Goon or Ex-Goon Sasstronaut Faggot Deplorables Killed in the Line of Posting Autistic
    • Awards
$35k/yr in tax increase so filthy poors can prolong their miserable existences a few more days or years lmao fuck them and their commie bullshit

lol its even worse than that, a huge portion of medical spending is state funded life extension for aids ridden faggots. and you better believe they're going to start demanding the expensive, magic johnson tier medications & treatments.

before obamacare washington state used to pay for top tier healthcare for aids patients, so wealthy faggots with aids from around the world would flood here for the gibs.

unrelated to this article, but aids research has more funding than every single rare disease except for cancer combined. also significantly more funding than heart disease, the #1 cause of death. reminder this is all for the luxury of gay men not needing to use condoms while they fuck eachother in the ass without exchanging names off of a cell phone app, or in the toilet stalls of public bathrooms.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 03:19:01 AM by wow »

kill
yourself
wow

Nah Im A White Guy

  • Cishet White Male
  • ******
  • Posts: 1429
  • アメリカを再び偉大にしよう
  • Awards Anonymous Goon or Ex-Goon Sasstronaut Faggot Deplorables Killed in the Line of Posting Autistic
    • Awards
Norweigan healthcare is only available to true norweigans, if you immigrated you're shit out of luck and will never be qualified.

Essentially everything is structured around a smaller demographic who's growth can be more reliably checked. they have no unrestrained border crossings and have also set up entire industries to fund the social programs and also ensure that working people put into the system and that on the other end it's also working people receiving the benefits.

hard agree and i'll take it further than the importing brown people problem:

All meaningful medical research on the planet exists due to the for-profit medical industry in America. While ours is a fucked up and broken system (see above,) one can also not fairly compare it to a socialized model without factoring in the global burden of medical research.

America's medical industry floats probably near every medical research program in the western sphere, mid east, etc; only asia and slavland are really all that independent of it. Germany likes to pretend to be, which is cute. This happens many ways, some directly and some less so.

Sometimes American pharma companies will fund foreign medical research in, or build facilities in countries like Canada, Kazakhstan etc. This is largely done to get around taxes, US regulations on medical research, human trials, and generally to avoid big brother, especially on ethical issues. Some of it's just remnants of when stem cell research was far more restricted. Before that whole thing, many of these countries had no medical research industry at all to speak of.

Other times foreign companies will develop medicine within a socialized country. This is almost always done with the intent to patent and sell said medicine in the American market. Some of it isn't -- so little you may as well consider it statistically insignificant.

etc. There are other reasons, and ways this happens as well.

Some medical research fits none of these categories. Most of said research is the % which is government funded by these socialized countries. It's a pretty miniscule amount in the big picture.

You can either have cheap medicine, widely available patient care, and no medical research.. or you can have inflated prices for medicine, not hand out welfare medical care to foreigners, and actually have medical research. It costs X dollars to press a pill and sit a patient in front of a doctor, it costs X + a lot to press a pill and then develop the next, less neurotoxic version of the pill that works better.

The only way any of these socialized systems have it both ways is by essentially using the US's capitalistic medical market. One would think it's compensated by us selling them medicine, however in practice it eventually just gets cloned overseas in countries who don't care about our laws like india. If we socialized, global medical research will grind to a halt and the european systems will either collapse or be drastically revamped to survive.

im no capitalism apologist, nor an apologist for the shitty US medical industry, but in this specific incidence it creates an unfair comparison. maybe someone could make a socialized system work, but not if you're basing it off a socialized system based around leeching off a capitalistic one which won't exist in your own scenario. i haven't seen it but i also haven't seen anyone try. idk it worked pretty well before obama fucked it all up, i could easily afford to self insure on the rates they used to be back then.

edit: yes there's obviously exceptions to every single thing i said. total up dollar amounts of medical research by country, cut out the stuff that's obviously subsidized by us, and see how significant those exceptions are on a global scale :p
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 03:38:16 AM by wow »

kill
yourself
wow

David Hedgehogstein

  • Cishet White Male
  • Knights
  • *
  • Posts: 3404
  • Member of Jew Club
  • Awards Swear on me mum m8 old Goon or Ex-Goon
    • Awards
The funniest thing about American healthcare is that the PR has been so damn good at persuading people healthcare and medicine needs to be expensive, that the general population will argue in favour of being ripped off. See also: American universities.



Nah Im A White Guy

  • Cishet White Male
  • ******
  • Posts: 1429
  • アメリカを再び偉大にしよう
  • Awards Anonymous Goon or Ex-Goon Sasstronaut Faggot Deplorables Killed in the Line of Posting Autistic
    • Awards
Even under the private model, the American public is being ripped off. Their shortsightedness doesn't allow them to see that going full Bernie will only serve to rip them off even more, and globally tank the future development of medicine, crash most euro countries healthcare systems etc.

It's easy for them to point to the fact that we're already being ripped off to argue for socialization and giving healthcare to niggers. It's a shame it takes :words: of big brain that they will never read to demonstrate why it's wrong. I guess just remind them that switzerland doesn't share a land border with mexico and their amazing system can literally only float like, asthma and malaria research without the browns.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 03:49:53 AM by wow »

kill
yourself
wow

Virtue Signalman First Class

  • Cishet White Male
  • ******
  • Posts: 3936
  • Awards  Lahinguväljal näeme, raisk! Classicist Drinkin' and Postin' Better dead than red old
    • Awards
The funniest thing about American healthcare is that the PR has been so damn good at persuading people healthcare and medicine needs to be expensive, that the general population will argue in favour of being ripped off. See also: American universities.

https://medicfootprints.org/10-highest-paid-countries-world-doctors/

There are some interesting numbers here. It's clear that America is one of the best place to work if you're a doctor, but it's not even the #1 country in the world in that regard, surprisingly Netherlands is.
But I do often point out that I write both science fiction and fantasy. It’s just that the science fiction is usually titled ‘technical proposal’ and the fantasy is titled ‘budget proposal.’

- Jordin Kare

The Watcher

  • Cishet White Male
  • ******
  • Posts: 3591
  • Awards Wounded in the line of posting. Goon or Ex-Goon
    • Awards
Healthcare shouldn’t be “free” at the expense of the taxpayer, it should just be affordable  :colbert:
His name was Harry Anderson

David Hedgehogstein

  • Cishet White Male
  • Knights
  • *
  • Posts: 3404
  • Member of Jew Club
  • Awards Swear on me mum m8 old Goon or Ex-Goon
    • Awards
Healthcare shouldn’t be “free” at the expense of the taxpayer, it should just be affordable  :colbert:
I had a wisdom tooth extraction under general anesthesia, along with antibiotics, painkillers etc...
Cost me just shy of 250 EUR.
Not going to complain.
How much would that cost in the US?


unprivsplain

  • Cishet White Male
  • ******
  • Posts: 3401
    • Awards
Healthcare shouldn’t be “free” at the expense of the taxpayer, it should just be affordable  :colbert:
I had a wisdom tooth extraction under general anesthesia, along with antibiotics, painkillers etc...
Cost me just shy of 250 EUR.
Not going to complain.
How much would that cost in the US?

It depends on a lot of things, but most likely around $750-$2,000. Dental insurance works as a pool where you can get $1,000 worth of benefit (as an example) a year, so if you have 2 cavities or a crown that year you're probably tapped out. Once you start getting in the higher range though, you might switch to your health insurance if the deductible is low enough. It depends a lot on the state as well, since some states have no caps on medical malpractice so general anesthesia can basically double the cost.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 08:03:49 AM by unprivsplain »

Dem Wypipo

  • Cishet White Male
  • ******
  • Posts: 3950
    • Awards
We can cut it down by a couple trillion per year by the following methods:

- Revive Operation Wetback
- Let ghetto niggers bleed out in the street instead of fixing them up so they can go shoot at each other when they get released
- Three Narcans per junkie.  If you OD the fourth time, sorry, you're SOL
- Free abortions for minorities; charge white women $5,000
- Turn fat people into biofuel

Then it will be affordable :colbert:

Jim Acostas Impotent Rage

  • Cishet White Male
  • ******
  • Posts: 2372
  • Awards Deplorables
    • Awards
Isn't one of the reasons healthcare is so expensive in America is because the doctors have to carry so much insurance because anyone who even sniffs death will try to sue the doctor?

"Him got shot 14 times in the face, and he die! Dem doctors didn't help him cuz he black!"
*Sues for 70 bajllion dollars*

POST FRANK

  • Cishet White Male
  • Cosmonauts
  • *
  • Posts: 1767
  • Awards Ambien posting Fucked a lesbian Drinkin' and Postin' Jesuit
    • Awards
Healthcare shouldn’t be “free” at the expense of the taxpayer, it should just be affordable  :colbert:
I had a wisdom tooth extraction under general anesthesia, along with antibiotics, painkillers etc...
Cost me just shy of 250 EUR.
Not going to complain.
How much would that cost in the US?

$150 out of pocket; although, I have very good dental insurance.

Isn't one of the reasons healthcare is so expensive in America is because the doctors have to carry so much insurance because anyone who even sniffs death will try to sue the doctor?

"Him got shot 14 times in the face, and he die! Dem doctors didn't help him cuz he black!"
*Sues for 70 bajllion dollars*

It’s more that we have 10-15 million trayvons, 12-30 million juans, millions of hakeems and other refugees, and a couple million more kareems and other “temporary protected persons” that we temporarily took in after disasters in their countries and have allowed to remain for 20 years.  They are either all uninsured or federally insured.

We pay for their healthcare directly through tax and indirectly as a subsidy because the healthcare insurers or hospitals subsidize their healthcare costs by increasing everyone else’s rates.

You can thank Catholics for this absolute shit show.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 10:44:56 AM by POST FRANK »

blakks are not very cool

  • Enemy Of The State
  • ****
  • Posts: 466
    • Awards
I don't really believe that. Medicare right now covers ~48 million, and covers people over 65. As in, by far the costliest demographic. Also

Quote
But other provisions would tend to drive up spending, including coverage for nearly 30 million uninsured people, no deductibles and copays, and improved benefits, including dental, vision and hearing.

Seems like an unneeded assumptions. Mainly the no deductibles, no copays, and lumping dental and vision with it.

Those aren't assumptions. They are provisions in Sanders' medicare-for-all bill that these studies are analyzing the cost of. A bunch of other organizations have found similar costs:
https://www.urban.org/research/publication/sanders-single-payer-health-care-plan-effect-national-health-expenditures-and-federal-and-private-spending (funded by soros et al)

Handyman

  • Cishet White Male
  • ******
  • Posts: 1825
  • Awards Goon or Ex-Goon Deplorables Wounded in the line of posting. United Statesian old The Gentry Better dead than red
    • Awards
This is a good time to remind everybody that one of the reasons why we don't have socialized medicine like our European counterparts is because during the Cold War we spent all of our money on guns instead of butter.  We basically never shifted out of war spending mode when WWII was done.  Other countries did.  So, when you have no foreign expeditionary force, no need to spend billions a year researching cutting edge military improvements like smart bombs, ICBMs, and stealth bombers, and you have the demographics of North Dakota, socialized medicine works.  Or, I should say, it's feasible.  You still need to tax the fuck out of people and you still end up with shortages. 

InsideOutside

  • Cishet White Male
  • ******
  • Posts: 2252
    • Awards
Isn't one of the reasons healthcare is so expensive in America is because the doctors have to carry so much insurance because anyone who even sniffs death will try to sue the doctor?

"Him got shot 14 times in the face, and he die! Dem doctors didn't help him cuz he black!"
*Sues for 70 bajllion dollars*

This is a direct result of healthcare consolidation. You're not suing the doctor, you're suing the hospital system they work for and their insurance company.

You know why psychologists never get sued when one of their clients goes postal? Because the operate as independent LLCs that don't accept insurance. There's nothing there to go after. Fucking lawyers.

asip

  • Cishet White Male
  • ******
  • Posts: 1492
  • Awards Wounded in the line of posting. Motorcyclist United Statesian Deplorables You Shall Not Pass!
    • Awards
I've heard the bit about doctors needing to charge so much due to malpractice insurance. Never seen a poor doctor or run down hospital.

Backpfeifengesicht

  • 5000 Posters Club
  • *
  • Posts: 7370
  • Awards You're Great...No, YOU'RE Great! Deplorables Anonymous For Dixie's land we'll take our stand! Methodist Better dead than red cold, dead hands Texan Goon or Ex-Goon
    • Awards
I've heard the bit about doctors needing to charge so much due to malpractice insurance. Never seen a poor doctor or run down hospital.

I've seen a shitty, old hospital. But to be fair they were doing a major renovation at the time on part of it.
Quote from: George Lincoln Rockwell
The Conservatives have a slogan which I think is despicable and defeatist: "It's better to be dead than red." And the Commies and Liberals have a slogan which is even worse, it's treason, they say: "It's better to be red than dead." We say this: "You don't have to be Red and you don't have to be Dead. Not dead. Not Red. Dead Reds"


Whig Historian

  • Cishet White Male
  • ******
  • Posts: 2614
    • Awards
I've heard the bit about doctors needing to charge so much due to malpractice insurance. Never seen a poor doctor or run down hospital.
You probably haven't seen their balance sheets either, though. There can be a lot of debt and/or corner-cutting involved in running a hospital. "Hey, let's take out a loan for our kickback buddies to build this expensive new tower to bring in new patients! Ooops, the tower ended up being way over budget and it didn't generate as much of an increase in patients as we had anticipated! Time to gut the cleaning and support staff and make the nurses clean up after the patients and haul them around instead! Also to serve ourselves up some nice fat severance packages and move onto our next gigs!"